RadoStefanov Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 http://www.appleinsi...st_savings.html "According to the report, Apple holds a "central conviction" that overseas production facilities offer scale, flexibility, diligence and skilled workers that U.S. factories are no longer able to match." What a bunch of crap!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Alert the wire services! I agree 100% with Rado. I would really like to see Apple make the attempt to move some of their hardware production -- even if it was just assembly and final QC -- to America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_bollard Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Dollars and cents; maximum return to the companies investors. That comes before being good corporate citizens. Not just Apple. All companies all over the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gilbert Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 If Apple manufactured in the US they wouldn't have become the behemoth they have, their bottom line relies on them producing cheaply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Mills Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Echoing Mr Bollard. A corporation is in some ways an artificial organism, which responds to stimuli in its environment if predictable (or at least unsurprising) ways. These stimuli include standardized accounting practices, shareholder requirements, and tax codes. The goal of this artificial organism is to continually expand. Fixed profits are considered an inadequate success by the stock rating industry in the US. This is especially aggravating when a company is NOT issuing new shares, and yet they operate with a continuing response to the price of existing shares on the SECONDARY markets (Stock exchanges). The price of a stock share that has already been issued has NO effect on the actual health of a company. This price DOES have an effect on what financial terms that company may borrow additional capital, or how much money they may raise with a fresh issue of a security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al mcguire Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and-a-squeezed-middle-class.html?pagewanted=1&ref=global-home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Echoing Mr Bollard. A corporation is in some ways an artificial organism, which responds to stimuli in its environment if predictable (or at least unsurprising) ways. - snip - The goal of this artificial organism is to continually expand. This is all true but it is important to realize that as of last year, Corporations are now PEOPLE... not some "artificial organism" Let's show some respect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 If Apple, or any other company, wants to remain competitive it has to produce products as efficiently and cheaply as possible. they are doing the same thing their competitors are doing by having products built by Asian contractors like Foxconn. That article could replace "Apple" with the name of any of the other companies that have their products made by contractors in Asia and the same conclusions would be true. And just for reference, Foxconn produces products for Apple, Acer, Amazon, Asus, Intel, Cisco, HP, Dell, Nintendo, Nokia, Microsoft, Sony, Sony Ericsson, Samsung, and Vizio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Mills Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Jeff, while I agree with you, they have been artificial persons a lot longer than since last year in US Law. I was grossly simplifying. I just wish there was a way to remove the political standing of these artificial persons.... was going to post a long rant on my reforming electoral politics and corporate lobbying, but I will just write that another day for the politics board... I am neither liberal nor conservative, just fed up.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 I would really like to see Apple make the attempt to move some of their hardware production -- even if it was just assembly and final QC -- to America. I know it's heresy to say this but I'm guessing that the post-Jobs era for Apple may begin to see some changes in this area... dare I say, perhaps even a less self-centered Apple. We've already seen Cook make some really good changes in the previous no-Charitable causes policy and I wouldn't be surprised if we see changes in overseas manufacturing, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason porter Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Profits over $400 000 per employee! You would think that they could afford to pay an American $50 000/yr to do the same job and still profit $350 000/employee/yr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 I know it's heresy to say this but I'm guessing that the post-Jobs era for Apple may begin to see some changes in this area... dare I say, perhaps even a less self-centered Apple. We've already seen Cook make some really good changes in the previous no-Charitable causes policy and I wouldn't be surprised if we see changes in overseas manufacturing, too. Don't count on that. Tim Cook was the one person most responsible for moving Apple production overseas. Apple resisted this move to overseas production for a long time and was one of the last American electronics manufacturers to do so. I would love to see more of these jobs come back to the US, but it just isn't gonna happen. Almost all of the component suppliers are near the assembly lines ... in China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Rose Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Profits over $400 000 per employee! You would think that they could afford to pay an American $50 000/yr to do the same job and still profit $350 000/employee/yr Doubtful. Those are Apple's direct employees: programmers, designers, marketeers, lawyers, and bean-counters. The near-slaves at Foxcom are supplier's employees. Their miserable salaries are considered part of the hardware cost, just as the plastic and copper are. (Apple probably also has a few direct-hire drivers, janitors, or other low-level employees. But often they aren't company employees either; rather, they work for a contract supplier who cleans/distributes/whatever for a fixed price.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfisk Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 I'm sure Asus, Dell, IBM, and many other computer manufacturers have their stuff built in the same building, or next door to where Apple has their stuff built. Same goes for your Android phones, tablets, tv's, MP3 players, digital cable boxes...almost anything with an electronic component these days. Steve Jobs openly talked about how he talked to Obama about the massive corporate tax system and lack of skilled engineers to oversee his factories that kept him from making products in the states. When they talk about skilled workers, they aren't talking about people on the line, they are talking about people managing the factories and making sure everything is up to spec. Colleges aren't churning out people with those skills anymore. Jobs asked Obama to do something about the corporate tax structure, and Obama refused...at least that's what Jobs claimed. The U.S. has some of the highest corporate tax rates in the world. How are big manufacturers supposed to afford to even manufacture here when they can make the same stuff but more cheaply in another country? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Ha... it's called capitalism... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Rose Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 The U.S. has some of the highest corporate tax rates in the world. So how can a company like GE make enormous profits and yet pay no tax? High tax rates on a chart are one thing... having lots of loopholes to legal avoid them, unfortunately, is the same thing. Corporations use them, and the bottom line is that government doesn't get the money to maintain roads, police, air traffic control, post office, and all the other things that keep those corporations running. It's a bit like a presidential candidate complaining that millionaire's tax rates are too high, and then confessing he personally pays "about 15%". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfisk Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 You have to understand that that 15% is what is being paid on on capital gains, or investments. Making investments is risky, and the idea of having a low tax rate on investments is meant to reward people who are willing to invest. Plus, relying on capital gains tax as a source of income for the government is very dangerous, as we've seen in California. Let's say I am an investor, and I make 15 million dollars this year on just investments, and the government decides to tax me at 30% on that. What happens when they are relying on that for the next year, and next year I only make $100,000 on investments. Now, if I am that investor, then I'm ok because I still did really well last year, but if you are the government, and the relying on a high capital gains tax, you just screwed yourself because that money you were relying on is no longer there, and your budget projections will be all out of wack. Companies like GE use loopholes to get out of paying high taxes because, well, the taxes are so high. If you run a large company, and the government wants to take 35% of what you make, you'll do what you can to avoid paying that in order to keep that money for the company. The fact of the matter is not all companies get out of paying corporate taxes, and the corporate tax structure is pretty complicated. Another problem is when people hear "corporation" they think of the huge multi-billion dollar a year entity. Well, those businesses are not the norm. Most businesses in America are small to medium size, and it's hard enough to make ends meet without the government coming in and taking a big chunk of what the business makes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted January 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 I understand the benefits of having cheap labor and this is not my main issue with apple's statement. But saying that there are no skilled workers in the USA is just scandalous. Las Vegas Nevada Sound Mixer www.hazna.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted January 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Dfisk, Investments are not risky for rich investors because the loss of investment is tax deductible and a loop hole that is being abused all the time. Las Vegas Nevada Sound Mixer www.hazna.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Rose Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 I've run a corporation. The current corp tax rate for a small company making, say, $50k PROFIT that year - after paying its executives whatever it wants, and deducting every possible expense including interest - is 15%. Bigger company? Make $100k and you pay all of 22%. That's a lot less than real people pay on an income of 100K. The only time you hit that nominal top rate of 35% -- the one politicians love to complain about -- is when your corporation makes more than $18,333,333.00 in profits. At which point you can hire enough accountants and lawyers to exploit existing loopholes, and support enough candidates that you'll be able to create new ones... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewFreedAudio Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Don't forget that the loop holes, tax breaks, and incentives that are available to large multi-billion dollar companies are also available to small entities like you and me. Those companies take advantage of the current tax code to save themselves money which, helps keep them in business. And how many of us love to put on our CV or Clients and Credits list those Fortune 500 companies we mixed a one day commercial for 3 years ago? The money those companies save by taking advantage of the tax code may very well be the same dollar they use to hire you for their next commercial, industrial training video, or social media spot. www.matthewfreed.com Production Sound Mixing for TV, Films, and Commercials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Rose Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 I stand corrected: those loopholes are available to ordinary people like you and me. So... are your wholly owned subsidiaries in Ireland, the Netherlands, and the Grand Caymans doing much mixing lately? Actually, they don't really have to mix or do anything other than be a mailing address where you can shuttle assets. And the accelerated depreciation on your $100 million recorder... you're taking advantage of that also, no? How about the deductions for your R&D lab, where you can even get government grants to research new methods of recording that you can then patent exclusively and manufacture off-shore? The accountants and lawyers who set these up for you, and negotiated advance rulings from the IRS: you're deducting their fees as well, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewFreedAudio Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 All of your legal fees related to your business are tax deductable, just like that big, bad, mean corporation. If you choose not to deduct those fees or consult with an attorney or financial consultant that is up to you. All of your business expenses such as equipment, travel, meals on the road, etc are tax deductable, just like those big, bad, mean corporations. If you had an R&D department you could deduct those expenses, just like those big, bad, mean corporations. You can deduct educational expenses related to your business. Are you doing that? If you wanted to buy a company overseas you are more than welcome to and then you can also take advatage of those tax breaks related to that business, just like those big, bad, mean corporations. Those big, bad, mean corporations are using the exact same tax laws that are available to you and me. They are dealing with much larger quantities of money and jobs. By the way, how many people do YOU employ full time? How many jobs have YOU created? How many millions of dollars in scholarships, grants, and community donations have YOU given away? www.matthewfreed.com Production Sound Mixing for TV, Films, and Commercials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Rose Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Ah... so it's just a matter of choice that I don't have offices in foreign countries, a foundation, or a retinue of lawyers and accountants. I thought it had to do something with available cash. The way I see it, it takes money to make money. Unfortunately, the equation isn't linear: until you have a certain minimum investment -- much more than most individuals I've heard of -- proportionally more of your money has to go into taxes, necessities, and unequal fees than into better-paying things. As they say, "the first million is always the hardest". If it were a totally level playing field, each million would be equally easy. In fact, just having a spare dollar would eventually get you a fortune. (FWIW, I've created maybe two dozen jobs over my career. While I haven't given away millions to worthwhile causes - that requires having at least hundreds of millions to spare - I've certainly given away a percentage of my cash and time each year that's equal to what a megacorporation would. But this isn't about me. Is it about you?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted January 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 My point is: USA has the capacity and the skilled workers to manufacture any products. I just checked the new TESLA S automobile while working at CES and It is a superb technological achievement and brilliant ln luxury and comfort. Designed and Made in USA. And with a starting price at $49,000 it leaves Audi, Mercedes and BMW in the last century... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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