AndyB Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Hi all. I'm going to be doing a shoot with a guy who normally wears a baseball cap, and I've been thinking about running the lav up to the bill of the cap instead of hiding it under the shirt. I've never tried this method before, but I've heard that it can give better sound and less chance of the voice being off axis. Anyone used this method succesfully (or unsuccesfully)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 It can be successful, given the right circumstances. Is it supposed to be completely hidden? That could prove to be a problem if he leans back... and... DADAA Lavalier in frame! Or if the lav is big, like a DPA, it could easily poke out... I wouldn't try hiding it where hat meets forehead, it could be a tight squeeze and a cap is pretty hard... could be noisy. But again, I have limited experience with caps, and I exclusively use DPAs... The cable from the cap down to the back of course... if he has no hair to tuck it under. It's a good idea on paper, and always hard for an outsider to answer. I say GO if your subject is often sitting still or is a lot shorter than the camera op.. And if he has long hair. Another issue of course is that when talents have lavs under their clothes it's a lot harder for them to forget they're wearing it. A cap is so easy to just take off and not think about the fact that there's an expensive mic under there.. Try it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jozzafunk Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Have been using hat mount recently very successfully, not quite on a cap but a wide brimmed hat - Post very happy with results. b6 just back from point where hat meets forehead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Used the "mounted in the hat" technique several times and most often with success. It is a wonderful place to put the mic in terms of sound pickup --- no head turns, no clothing rustle, etc., but it does have one particular aspect that is often the deal breaker. You have almost no protection against the mic or cable being seen if the person wearing the hat looks up and the camera can see under the brim of the hat. This is also something you have no control over and it is something that a camera operator might not notice (but could be very well noticed "on the big screen"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Just read some of the other replies and I concur... also, " b6 just back from point where hat meets forehead" never thought of putting the mic there, or possibly on the headband off to one side. This would help with potential visibility/ concealment issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Yes - with great success. Also used it with hardhats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Watch out for that sweat though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted January 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 WOW! Thanks for all the speedy replies! The guy is a country music star, so I'm betting he'll take pretty well to my direction to not mess with the hat once its wired. He's probably used to stuff like this. I'm mostly liking this because he won't be able to turn his head off mic. As for sweat (Olle), Its January in the North Carolina mountains. While its warmer than usual, still not sweaty weather, and these are all casual interview/docu type set-ups. My biggest concern, is providing enough slack in the cable to allow free movement of his head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason porter Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Wind might be an issue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted January 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Good point Jason. I haven't seen the schedule yet, so I don't know if these are interior or exterior shots yet. Definitely keep this ind mind, though. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate C Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 On a job primarily shot on beaches, one of our actresses had a horribly noisy costume. A cos11 in the head band against her forehead was our go to solution. Sounded great. During the six months of production we never heard any noise of the hat rubbing against the forehead. May of just been lucky. We tried planting the mic under the bill of the hat but was seen by camera one to many times. It only takes once. When she wore a larger hat we could often hide the transmitter in the hat itself. When you have to run the cable down the back and hide the transmitter on the person, you have to careful they don't keep taking the hat off, and thus de-rigging the hat. Unfortunatly for us our location was hot and humid. Never had an issues with mic heads due to the humidity, but we did loose a couple of body packs to sweat. Thats another story. You would be suprised how much wind the peak of a cap cuts back. Usually we didn't use any wind protection. On windier days I would sandwich the cos11 in a white rycote over cover and place in the usual place. It blended in with her blonde hair if it was ever visable to camera. Hiding mics in hats, beanies and hair have to my favourite position when the situation lends itself to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Good info, Nate C! Sweat shouldn't be an issue, and I've got a few of the NeoPax waistband Tx holders on the way. FYI, lavs are Senn G3 with Tram TR-50 mics. Not the best, but its what I can afford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Waelder Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 If this is a dramatic shoot, or larger scale documentary, and you have some prep time and a wardrobe person to help, you can rig a hat to accept microphones. The wardrobe person can affix some cloth or moleskin to the underside of the brim to hide the mike. You'd want two layers of material, one directly on the underside of the brim with a cutout for the mike and cable. Then another layer goes atop that (or underneath as the hat is worn) to provide concealment. The concealment cloth should be a thin muslin so it can cover the mike but not attenuate the signal. Locate the mike about at the mid-point of the brim so the spot is seen only when the wearer's head is tilted back. There may be a small bump at the location of the mike head but it'll go unnoticed since it would only be seen in glancing moments. This is a bit of a bother to set up since you'd have to glue on cloth with a color that looks right for the underside of the bill. But when you are done you'd have a rig with ideal placement and wind protection. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 @ David, this is a one day quick docu type shoot, shooting on a 5D, so no wardrobe in advance. I roll into town in the AM, we shoot for up to 10 hours, and that's it. While I like the hat brim concept, I'll just have to play it by ear (so to speak) once I get there. I'd be surprised if there was an hour allocated for set up time. Optimal lav placement would be nice, but it seems like I'll get most of my usable audio from the boom. Still, I want to have the best lav tracks possible in the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Reilly Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 A flat Tram might be one of the better lower budget choices for this. A large cowboy hat might interfere with overhead boom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Is this a really big country star that always wears a hat? If so, check with his people first. One that I have worked with WILL NOT remove his hat when people are around. This could be an issue if you don't have proper dressing facilities on this gig. The hat mount can work great, but it can cause as many issues as it solves (like hiding the cables) so I only use it if the wardrobe doesn't allow hiding a mic normally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Marts Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Many times I used a lav on the forehead under a stocking cap on the Northern Exposure TV series. A lot of winter exteriors and the under-the-hat and cap rig usually worked quite well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Loved Northern Exposure, Bob! That was well before I got into sound, though. Anyway, we're talking Grammy nominated dude, wears a ball cap mostly, not a cowboy hat. @ Q, this is going to be pretty "seat of the pants", so no real prep time, no having wardrobe rig it up before hand. Pretty much just show up, bust out the bag gear, and make it happen with about an hour of prep time, a couple lavs and a boom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Tuzo Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 It sounds to me that regardless of your best intentions, It would likely be more practical to go with at traditional body mount. If this is a quick and dirty 5D shoot, chances are nobody is going to feel like waiting while you work out the hat mount. Also, considering it's a doc, the possibility of seeing the wire running up the neck or the lav under the brim greatly increase. I've had the best success with methods like this one in more controlled, scripted settings. Good luck, Dont't worry too much about him falling off axis... just don't lav his shoulder (unless, that is, he's delivering the entire interview looking over that shoulder ) Best, Wyatt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominiquegreffard Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Although its pretty practical to hide in hats n' stuff i do think that u lose a bit of the the lower end of the voice (aka nice low male voices warmth). I usually see hat miking as a plan b when other options go wrong. But for documentary i d probably do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Wyatt, I hear you. I've been in contact with the production team, and they don't even know yet if the want the lavs hidden or clipped on. Hat mount is a good plan B, then, but first option is to go traditional wih it. Thanks to everyone for their input on this! This forum kicks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Reilly Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Hardware..aka necklaces and such might be a consideration. A hat is cool in that it would seemingly get the mic away from things like that. of course, some guys make a habit of tugging on a cap.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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