taylormadeaudio Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 So I'm doing a little 2-day shoot next week - F3 cam(s) - not too concerned because so far it seems they're fine with me just tethering to one... the last F3 shoot I did, I used hops (dual Lectro 401's), but had to use the internal rx batts as there was no LeMo DC port (what I'm used to having.) On this last shoot, the operator had 2 external monitors connected to this thing (what a cluster-f**k -- banging into walls... mounting arms coming loose at the most inopportune moments, etc. -- though some kudos to him are in order for kind of being able to operate that way) ...and my hops (because they were a bit of an afterthought) wound up being somewhat of a hinderance as well, jury-rigged to the side of the camera with Velcro, and having to constantly monitor their internal batteries -- on a 16-hr day : ) YAY! I have to admit, since I do mostly features -- where I rarely have any interaction with the camera besides timecode sync and possibly a Comtek for scratch track -- I'm not as prepared to deal with this sort of issue as I'd like to be. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what 'standard' power cables (especially for CamHops) besides the LeMo might be of use in situations like this. I have some 4-pin XLR's, and some BDS-type cables... I'm not sure any cable would have worked in the previous case, as there didn't appear to be any available ports, but I'd like to have at least a couple more options at my disposal, so I could at least say I tried (beyond my usual "all I have is a LeMo connector") What are a few of the other standard DC connectors in use on cameras (onboard) and (external) camera batteries? I usually try to communicate directly with someone in the Camera Dept. as early as possible, but sometimes I just don't get all the information I need, and wind up trying to improvise on the day -- so far I've been pretty lucky -- but I'm all about trying to be as prepared as possible... whether they deserve it or not : ) Thanks for any advice anyone might have to offer : ) ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Daddyo Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Tom, 99% of the cameras that I've work with have an external DC power tap using the 4 pin hirose. I also have another cable with an anton bauer battery connector on one end and the Zaxcom connector on the other. I've only had to use that cable a few times. The last time I worked with a F3 and had to go wireless I just gave my custom made fanny pack to the camera op which held my Stereo Zaxcom Rx and a NP1 battery. I keep wanting to get a half np1 for my fanny pack rig to make it a bit lighter. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael McQueen Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 welcome to the joy of pro-sumer cameras. for my hops i use sra's with battery sleds(10 hours run time with small battery). however, sometimes these cameras will have an external power setup with a vmount or a/b battery, but i find that pretty rare. usually your power option for that is a d-tap. but yeah, otherwise, internal batteries are probably your best bet if you're using the 400 series rx's. i haven't come across many camera guys that enjoy the fanny pack method. usually thats something i go over with before the job starts so i can be aware of any crap ahead of time. another option for mounting to camera is the bracket1, http://www.bracket1.com/ and i usually include that as part of my package for an additional fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Daddyo Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Like Michael I also discuss the camerahop rigging in advance. Although unlike Michael I usually find very little camera op resistance to using fanny packs. Maybe it's because of the nifty custom fanny pack rig I provide. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Graff Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 F3 has no DC output, so no options there other than those listed above (NP-powered receiver in fanny pack, self-powered receiver). I usually have a variety of options as some operators prefer keeping the camera as light as possible and will deal with being tethered to a waist pack and other would rather avoid any tether. As to DC cables to have on hand, the main other one is the Anton-Bauer D-tap. The Hirose is preferable as it powers on and off with the camera and the D-tap is always hot as long as there is a battery on the camera. Sometimes the Hirose is needed for something else or the fuse can get blown. Only other tap I own is the one for Red camera, which I have never used. It's been a long time since I sent audio to a Red anyway, but when I have I was always hardwired (usually the case) or just sent a scratch track on IFB or Comtek. Red shoots don't tend to be too mobile. PG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Mills Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Sounds like the camera package skimped and used the Sony built in consumer style battery slot on your shoot. I (and many of the other folks in my market) use a baseplate/battery plate combo that lets us have thruput to the 12volt 4 pin socket on the camera, and 2 or 3 spare D tap sockets to feed monitor, onboard sound rx, etc. I am using the Berkey base and top plates, and a very small monitor for the AC.... I also have a ki-pro mini in the rig. It is still pretty compact, weighs less than an F900 or HDX 900 rig, slightly smaller I find that feeding sound to this camera is infinitely better than the previous SOny mini dv, dvcam, and hdv rigs. Also a little better than with the HDCAM f900. But.... this camera is not really a hand held camcorder. That would be the EX3, or another more shoulder mount xdcam (can't remember model #. OH.. DON'T use the HDW-F900 camera power lemo out on an HDCAM.. you may short the main board, causing $5000 or mor in parts and repairs. If anyone knows a way to test the cable/device combination to prevent this, please let me know.. I THINK it's a bench test only kind of thing... This is a large sensor studio style camera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Daddyo Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Christopher, Is the problem only with the F900 and not the F900R? I worked with a F900R for 10 days straight mostly going wireless using the DC out with no problems. It seems odd that connecting something to the DC out would cause that much damage. Seems like there must have been a problem specific to that camera. Someone on JWsound once said that hot plugging or unplugging can blow an internal fuse in some cameras. Although I use to do that all the time with no problems. Now just to be safe I always power down the camera before plugging or unplugging anything into the DC connector. Christopher and Tom you both referred to the Lemo connector but I think you mean the 4 pin hirose connector. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngooch Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 The Lectro Batsled is something i would consider as an option for powering an RX. Not quite the perfect solution for your situation but could be handy with 400 RX in pouch all day. Of course on the RX there are no locking DC connectors...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Mills Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Andy, my experience and knowledge of this flaw is in the hdw-f900 only. Steve Fournier of Kinescope (Sony Pro gear tech) suggests disconnecting the 12 v out on these cameras, as it is very difficult to determine prior to cooking a board if your 3rd party cable and accessory are compatible. IAFIK There is no fuse in this part of the camera to protect the logic board... though even if there were, the service to replace all the fuses is is a bench,not field operation (usual cost, over $1,000) and yes, it is a Hirose, not a Lemo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted January 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 ...Christopher and Tom you both referred to the Lemo connector but I think you mean the 4 pin hirose connector. Andy Thanks Andy, You're absolutely correct -- I did mean the 4-pin Hirose... I'm so used to the LeMo connectors for TC applications, I mistakenly referred to the Hirose connector as such... That said, thanks to all of you for replying -- it's looking like, in the interest of being adequately prepared, I'll need to look into adding some camera power accessories to my arsenal. I've put it off, favoring more Sound-specific investments, but it seems like this issue is getting harder for me to ignore / sidestep. Oh well, it's a write-off, right? Thanks again guys -- I really appreciate it : ) ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Mills Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 If they have gone to AB batteries for the camera (very common, esp when using a lot of accessories), having this in your kit, along with d-tap cables for your accessory, will be very helpful http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/677606-REG/Anton_Bauer_QR_QUAD_PT_4_PowerTap_Sandwich_Adapter.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted January 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Thanks Christopher, I'll definitely take it into consideration -- right now I can think of a few other things I'd rather get for $300, but it would be nice to have an adapter like that. The Cam Ops on many of the shoots I've done use the AB batts, so I can definitely see how this adapter would help (especially when they have a Gazillion peripherals loaded onto the camera already.) ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted January 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Tom, 99% of the cameras that I've work with have an external DC power tap using the 4 pin hirose.... Andy This is mainly what I was hoping to hear -- because this is what I've been using, and have (erroneously) assumed it would always suffice... at least I know it's not completely absurd that I don't have an alternate solution besides the 4-pin Hirose and/or internal batts. I have to admit my gear purchasing habits are changing a bit these days -- I love buying gear, but have come to realize the full impact that depreciation and things falling out of date have on my life. Thanks again guys : ) ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy P Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 I've done quite a few shoots with this F3 rig below.. no problem for me because they powered the camera from an IDX Vock battery on a shoe. The shoe has a 4 pin xlr for the camera and also had a Anton Bauer "D-tap" socket, so I could power my Zax rx from there. Everything just squeezed onto the bars! Have a word with the camera guys and production, see if they want to go that way too. My camera guy said it gave him good balance, but it ends up being quite a rig. The cherry on this cake was the P2 deck recorder at the end of the bars, because the F3's bit rate wasn't up to the tech spec/broadcast standards. We were actually shooting quite a lot of ob doc style with this rig, no mean feat at all - especially with prime lenses and no zoom. Here's she is - bit of a Frakenstein ;-)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted January 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 dang, what a mess. yeah, I'm supposed to be in contact with the cam op tomorrow... should be able to work everything out. thanks again guys : ) ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Paine Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 I'm just starting a series with 2 F-3's. We've done the camera tests and came up with a nice plan. They are using a pix 240 on each camera. So I jam the pix directly and can stay in sync for a few hours. Much more reliable then the Sony clock. I send a scratch track to the cameras audio inputs and it gets recorded on to the pix through the SDI output. They are double recording with the onboard SXS cards as a back up. So timecode out of the Pix 240's goes into the cameras timecode input. So far a pretty good system. Luckily, they are using a V-mount battery to power their rigs, so I get a feed for my audio receiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 A pix 240 investment could probably be a good investment for all involved; cam gets a good monitor that records, we get a SAFE and consistent way to jam tc and audio, that we know sounds good. I'm getting one. (null) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBoisseau Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 I seem to remember some of the old Beta SP cameras, if running on battery, actually having 12v on the 4p XLR INPUT! I made a cable and ran RX and other devices off of this "output" many times. Does anyone know if the PMW-F3 has 12v on the 4p XLR? Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted February 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 So I wound up just using the batteries in the 401's, we jammed TC from my SB-T, and I turned in files at the end of each day -- everyone was happy. I do need to get a couple AB D-tap cables though -- plan to do this ASAP just in case I run into this scenario in the future. Thanks again for all your suggestions. FWIW, the camera op on this job told me he had a couple of the SD PIX240's and wound up selling them because they apparently have insane power consumption levels. He showed me his Atomos Samurai unit which was pretty impressive: http://atomos.com/samurai/ I haven't done much comparison between the two, but he swears by these Atomos rigs. ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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