David A-Ribeiro Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 So I have an upcoming 3-day shoot where I will be working with two boom-operators and, due to the equipment available, with two different shotgun microphones. I will probably have my own mic on one boom (Sanken CS3e), and I have a choice of Rode NTG3 or the Senny 416 (48V) for the second boom. Since I will also be doing the post (at least dialogue editing and some fx/ambience), I will make sure to have as much usable room tone from both mics as possible, but I was wondering if anyone could give me any tips from their own experience. I´m thinking of assigning microphones to specific characters so as not to boom the same voice with different mics, but this will at some point be impossible because those characters will all converge in some takes. Regarding those models, I have read here and elsewhere that the NTG3 and the 416 seem to sound similar for many people, but I wasnt thinking of leaving the CS3e in the box. Any suggestions, opinions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Without you're having a chance to listen to all and letting your ears guide you, I would opt for the Rode & Sanken for sonic matching or the 416 & Sanken for pattern matching. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A-Ribeiro Posted January 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Yes, I will try to test them before the shoot but I am not sure if they will be available in time to record something and listen back to it through my monitors. I´m not sure if I understand correctly (in practical terms) your distinction between "sonic matching" and "pattern matching": do you mean that the same voice will sound similar through those two mics (sonic), and that, for example, in "bright" interiors two mics with similar pattern will show the same problems with reflections? I will shoot quite a lot in large interiors and I am aware of the risk of getting "phasey" artifacts, but from what I saw in the polar graph curves, the Sanken seems to be the only one that would perform better in this scenario, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Be sure to track them seperately so you can EQ and remix in post if you run into any problems with tonality or phasing. If the actors are nicely on-mic, I think you'll find it easy to mix. You'll get into trouble when the off-mic difference between these mics becomes apparent. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Yes, I will try to test them before the shoot but I am not sure if they will be available in time to record something and listen back to it through my monitors. I´m not sure if I understand correctly (in practical terms) your distinction between "sonic matching" and "pattern matching": do you mean that the same voice will sound similar through those two mics (sonic), and that, for example, in "bright" interiors two mics with similar pattern will show the same problems with reflections? I will shoot quite a lot in large interiors and I am aware of the risk of getting "phasey" artifacts, but from what I saw in the polar graph curves, the Sanken seems to be the only one that would perform better in this scenario, no? You got the sonic part almost correct. Sonic is how close they sound alike. Pattern matching means how wide or tight the patterns of the mics are at a given distance. You're also right in your feeling about the Sanken which is why it's the constant in both my examples. Good luck on your shoot. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 NTG-3 sounds better indoors than 416 IMHO. (null) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A-Ribeiro Posted January 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Robert: yes, I will have everything onto separate tracks, and make sure the mic is on as much as possible. Eric: thanks! Yep, the Sanken is my favorite of the three, and now it turns out there might be two 416`s available after all... Olle: We´re going on a scout these next few days and I`ll sure take that into consideration. I know most of the interiors are in old apartments with very high ceilings that will be difficult to treat with the blankets I have. I might even do some recordings if the mics are available on that day and post something here if it is of any interest at all. Thank you guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 I might even do some recordings if the mics are available on that day and post something here if it is of any interest at all. Thank you guys! That would be of great interest! Good thing you can scout. That's a life saver. High ceilings sound like a typical non-416 situation. If you have the time, borrow a few c-stands or auto poles (barracudas?) from grip/gaffer and put blankets on 'em. But only if the room sounds like crap. Otherwise that reverb might be a good thing. And IMO the 416 does not give you a good depth, the nTG-3 is better but still not great. There's a harshness in the 416 that I don't fancy. Ntg-3 is a bit smoother and a bit more forgiving in those circumstances... Have no exp with sanken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A-Ribeiro Posted February 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 I got my hands on all three mics and I have made a short recording of my voice with all of them. It is nothing too scientific, but it is a room similar to where we will record (except the RED is not whooshing around and there is no crew). The gain setting is the same for every recording, 41db at the preamp gain in my SD recorder, 60Hz HPF, 12db slope. To make it more interesting I just named the mics 1, 2, and 3, I know this is not about guessing but about the differences in sound, but still... I hope I have time to get back before the shoot, meanwhile I will just leave you with the files, 24b/48k. TESTT4.WAV TESTT5.WAV TESTT6.WAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Berzins Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Test 4 = NTG3 Test 5 = 416 Test 6 = CS3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 I don't think my cs3 sounds like test 6 - unless you had the low cut switched in on the mic as well..? I'd say: Test 4 is NTG3, Test 5 is CS3-e, Test 6 is 416. But who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Test 4: NTG3 Test 5: CS3-e Test 6: 416 I really like the test 4 and 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A-Ribeiro Posted February 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 Justin and Vasileios got it right. I ended up taking the Sanken and the NTG3, and I am guessing there will be no noticeable difference if there is a proper dialogue editing in post. Quite happy with the Rode although it is noticeably heavier and it had a constant very low-level hiss which made it a bit noisier than the Sanken. But I guess this might be due to previous abuse than to the mic itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 Yeah, I'd say that mic's been abused if it's noisier than the Sanken. My NTG-3 is really quiet, and my Sanken is a bit noisier. I like the test 5 the best, which is why i own the Sanken, and the NTG-3's only been out of the case once in 2.5 years. Good luck with your shoot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 David replay the same tests but for this time in outdoor. After the test choose the microphone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Berzins Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 Justin and Vasileios got it right. Wow, I'm surprised. The high end on #5 seemed a bit harsher with a lot more mid-range presence than what I recall of my CS3: more like what I remember a 416 to sound like, but listening again more closely, the noise floor should have given it away as the CS3 immediately. Fun 'test', in any case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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