pvanstry Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Guys, i did a search and could not find info on this. I have a shoot coming up and we are doing double system. 788/CL8 sending a scratch track via Comtek to Red scarlett ( proper line to mic cable ). Also there is going to be a Denecke SB3 on the Red Jamsynced from my 788. The question: THey want to shoot at 24fps. What framerate do i set the 788 and SB3 at? Called Red and when i ask them they say that there 24fps setting is a true 24fps not a fake one using 23.98 like many other mfg. Can't get to the camera before starting the shoot. Any help please? THanks Pascal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShubiSnax Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 The Red rep referred to 23.98 as "fake" 24? Interesting.. If I'm not missing anything, both the 788 and SB3 are capable of generating and jamming to a true 24fps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsnd Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 sb3 dial position 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Southern Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 I was under the impression that at least the Epic shoots at 23.976. At a shoot I worked on this week (which didn't involved timecode), the DP told me that was the framerate of the Epic they rented, and sure enough, on the actual display of the camera is showed "23.976" in the lower left corner. Here's an image of what I mean: http://redmodz.com/red-scarlet-playback-menu-screen-it-works/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gilchrist Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 From the Epic's specs page on the Red website: PROJECT FRAME RATES 23.98, 24, 25, 29.97, 47.96, 48, 50, 59.94 fps, all resolutions Best regards, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonkyoh Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 The Epic shoot I did recently was straight 24. Everything i.e. SB3, SBT, cameras, slate, recorder, ran on 24. Jon K. Oh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 RED thinks 23.98 is a "fake" frame rate? They are still attracting the best and the brightest, I see. phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvanstry Posted February 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Just to clarify, Red tech support DID NOT say that 24 setting was really 23.98 or that it was a fake 24, they said the opposite. That 24 was really 24. I was asking them because most, if not all VIDEO camera do not do a real 24 but do instead a fake 24 that is really 23.98. Thanks for all response, in the end the DP called and said he was going to roll at 23.98.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Ah, thank god logic took hold. I was going to suggest, it's not a good idea to shoot at 24.00fps (and 24fps TC) unless everybody in the entire post and delivery chain know and agree on this. Almost everything out there is going at 23.98, to my knowledge -- with very rare exceptions. If they have a theatrical delivery, tweaking it at the end to convert 23.98 to 24.00 for film (or for a theatrical DCP) is fairly trivial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gilchrist Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 I'm certain the Red folks are referring to some of the Panasonic cameras that present 24 fps in all the literature but record an electronically pulled down 23.98 in a 29.97 framework. It also doesn't help that production often has no clue that there is a difference between 23.98 and 24 (after all, it's just .02 frames and if it's over.50 we can round up just like on our taxes, right?). I have run across many owner/operators and particularly data wranglers that are unaware of the electronic pulldown some cameras use to achieve the 24 frame look including one who insisted the Panasonic manual was incorrect. Along with the Red products, the Alexa also allows for a true 24 fps project rate. Best regards, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 " do instead a fake 24 that is really 23.98. " 23.976 is not a fake 24.000, it is a pulled down 24.000, just as 29.97 is a pulled down 30.000 FPS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lezynski Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 Unless someone holds a gun to your head, 23.98 is the real frame rate. If you get full integer 24fps requirements in writing, then MAYBE....... Most likely, the person requiring 24.00fps is an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvanstry Posted February 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 THe company dump me. I did all the research ( more then just framerate ), built specific cables for the shoot, supplied a friend with equipment ( to replace me at the begining of the shoot ) and they simply emailled me and told me they were going to use local sound guys in all the different places they will be going. I'm ok with them deciding to use local guys BUT you don't make a guy work for free figuring out your stuff with the promise of a shoot ( calendar, multiple dates set etc... ) and then change your mind... Amateurs ( another word for Producers ) P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) " you don't make a guy work for free " Yes, Sir, that is correct... how did they make you work for free ?? Oh, you let them... Well, you are a 'designer and consultant'; you should send them an invoice for your services. Edited February 11, 2012 by studiomprd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvanstry Posted February 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 You are funny!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Mills Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 No, seriously, Send a bill. They may not pay it, but the point that planning services cost money needs to be made. I also have planned many shoots as a producer and a key technician, and been a consultant for feasibility studies, and I am very clear that prep has costs. If they are some sort of friend (their behavior makes me doubt it) you might instead send an email explaining how much the time you spent helping them should cost. It is remotely possible that they will indeed pay you a sound superivsor prep and consultation rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 I agree. Include the number of hours you worked prepping and your hourly rate and bill them. Make it fair and reasonable for work you did in nonscheduled time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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