SD what's up next?

[Noah Timan]

I'm not "worried" about anything, I have just been enjoying the thought process provoked by the initial post and then your ideas about an "all-in-one" large scale mixer-recorder-panel that is just one item to go on one shelf. I do realize now it's NOT all about the shelf, but I am still puzzled by all the other things you say this would consolidate: A to D converters (aren't they already in the recorder?), timecode generator (again, isn't this in the recorder?), and I still don't get the problem of the "whole gaggle of interconnects and power cables" part.

Some folks like myself use outboard A/D gear and timecode gear (Denecke GR-1, etc). These are just examples though. Your suggestion is that "you'd still have to have all sorts of other gear on your cart"...well, no, that's the idea behind an all-in-one box. Less interfacing and less gear. In the idea I was thinking of, one could conceivably run with this one machine and one rack of wireless. That's only two large-ish items on the cart, which makes for a very small, very mobile cart that doesn't give much up in comparison to a more traditionally "full size" sound cart setup. Yes, you'd then need two IFB sends (which are smaller) and two video monitors (not "sound gear" per se) and you'd be done. That's a dramatically smaller, simpler cart than what I, at least, am used to, and in some of the cart setups I've seen here and out in the world I know I'm not alone there.

Yes, if the machine fails you'd have to get another one off the truck. But in some sense, at least to me, that'd be easier than maintaining multiple pieces of gear, each of which may fail, hiccup, or appear to fail, or have a power or audio connection that might fail, etc. Because, after all, we all love troubleshooting on set.

I'm just trying to figure out exactly what it is that is different, other than the all-in-one idea, and exploring the relative merits of your idea. I'm not trying to talk anybody into any particular piece of equipment either.

If that's so then I apologize...it seemed like you were aggressively pooh-poohing the idea and also aggressively pushing forth the idea that the Deva/Mix12 combo was the answer to what I was seeking.

[RadoStefanov]

744t with 4 Pres and and simple mixing routing on the front panel will be in my view the best product for some of us.

Or better yet 755t.

imo, simply having put another 2 preamps with surface faders onto the 744t would have pre-empted any number of other products on the market. why they never did a mystery to me save maybe adhering to the misguided maxim of not cannibalizing your (other) product line, ie, refer to Jobs' quote. I resent having to tug along a separate pre-amp to allow mic inputs for channels 3&4 for music & dms ambience. And in my work I seldom need channels 5, 6, 7 & 8 of a 788.

So +1 on the previous post about getting the Sonosax SX-R4 right. I hate its display, too small for my eyes. I like the 744t display - big enough. I think there is a market out there for a great 4 channel, 4 pristine preamp recorder. Just look at what Nagra and Aeta and SX came out with. But this porridge too hot (Nagra too big) and this porridge too cold ( SX-R4 too small ) and I really dont know enough about the AETA.

my 2 bits.

[soundslikejustin]

Or better yet 755t.

I would buy this tomorrow.

[RadoStefanov]

Yea. Me too.

But SD need to proof that they are a company looking in to the future and not stuck in their ways.

They need to undestand a few things:

1. WIth the growing number of wireless in the bag,from now on Nobody will want have a mixer and a recorder in the same bag.

2. Even Recorders Need a return.

3. It is OK if 2 products from the same company compete with each other as far as sells go.

4. Having 4 channel recorder with 2 mic preamp and two gain knobs was OK for 2003 but not anymore.

so updated 744t 9 years later is a must.

I would buy this tomorrow.

[Mark LeBlanc]

Here's an option.. The Presonus 16.0.2 Digital Mixer. Very Small Footprint..

MacMini on Ebay $550, Presonus 16.0.2 - $1200, Ipad to remote control MacMini $349 on ebay, boom recorder $260 = $2359 for 12 tracks ISO recording. Basic Cable Count. 1 Firewire cable, 2 power cables.. Upside, inexpensive backup or for the the days you have to scale up to more tracks.. Downside is you need AC.. The Presonus preamps are top notch. I have an standing offer to use the Big Brother 24.4.2 Presonus if I ever need it..

Nice Demo..

http://www.ccisolutions.com/StoreFront/product/presonus-studiolive-16-0-2?gclid=CKSRtPiSwq4CFS5j7Aodg2mtYQ

[Rich Reilly]

"there is a market out there for a great 4 channel, 4 pristine preamp recorder"

R44 supah pro?

R44 pro seems long due for upgrade as well.

[RadoStefanov]

The form factor of the EDIROL R44 for a bag is idiotic.

"there is a market out there for a great 4 channel, 4 pristine preamp recorder"

R44 supah pro?

R44 pro seems long due for upgrade as well.

[Marc Wielage]

Right, although other for live sound applications (probably not the market for such a thing anyway), when would one need a full size panel mixer but not a recorder?

It's more the opposite: occasions where you'd need a recorder but not the mixer. I like Jeff's idea for a CL10 -- this might push Sound Devices more into that category, but I still want to see a much larger touch-screen interface, even bigger than what's on the Deva.

I agree with the notion (presented by Tom) that even though it costs a bit more, it's more ideal to have two separate setups tailored for each one's specific needs, rather than try to have a jack-of-all-trades solution that inevitably compromises both.

Yep, very hard to argue with that.

[BAB414]

744t with 4 Pres and and simple mixing routing on the front panel will be in my view the best product for some of us.

Or better yet 755t.

While this improved 744 would be a great machine, would SD ever be able to sell that at a competitive price? A 744t costs $4100 - add 2 pres and faders ("cannibalize" the current 744) and now you're looking at a price beginning to approach that of a 788, or at the very least, a 6 track Nomad...(btw, not trying to make this another SD vs. Zax post)

[Rich Reilly]

"A 744t costs $4100"

Looking at cameras etc, prices of models sometimes come down over time.

[Rich Reilly]

"R44 for a bag is idiotic."

Oh..but not the supah R44 pro BTW, how so?

[RadoStefanov]

The screen is pointing away from you.

It has controls on the top.

"R44 for a bag is idiotic."

Oh..but not the supah R44 pro BTW, how so?

[Noah Timan]

It's more the opposite: occasions where you'd need a recorder but not the mixer. I like Jeff's idea for a CL10 -- this might push Sound Devices more into that category, but I still want to see a much larger touch-screen interface, even bigger than what's on the Deva.

Yes, but riddle me this: when do you need a recorder *with a lot of inputs* without a mixer?

As far as a small, mixer-less recorder with low input count, those already exist cheaply and could be added to one's package as a separate item. 702T, 744T, low-channel Nomad, ZFR recorders, Fostex FR-2, etc. If time code isn't needed then there's even more and cheaper options -- Tascam, Zoom, Marantz, etc.

And if portability isn't an issue, there's already lots of cheap options for recording with no mixing that can handle quite a lot of tracks -- BlackBox recorder, used 824s, Boom Recorder + interface, etc.

Rather than try to fudge a separate (portable) non-mixing recording interface into this proposed machine -- which seems difficult and invariably would have a price increase for that function similar to the cost of one of the above -- why not just have two separate scenarios to use as needed?

Unless you're suggesting that one needs a portable solution with a lot of tracks and no mixer. But I can't envision what that scenario would be...

[Jeff Wexler]

I may have found the perfect item for Noah (and this is no joke --- if something with this capability could be built by one of our favorite companies, Sound Devices, Zaxcom) AND at this sort of price point, $499. we'd have a winner!).

It’s a Recorder.

The R24 is perfect for capturing audio in a variety of settings. It supplies up to 6 channels with 48V/24V phantom power, so you can record with a variety of condenser microphones on vocals, pianos, guitars or drums. You can record up to 8 tracks simultaneously and playback up to 24 tracks in either 16-bit/44.1kHz or 24-bit/48kHz WAV format. So you have enough tracks and power to record everything from complete drum kits to live music performances of bands and orchestras. You can even produce audio and sound effects for film or video.

On its side panels, the R24 also features two built-in stereo condenser microphones for field recording or quick, convenient “sketch-pad” ideas and rehearsals. Use the 8 combination XLR-1/4-inch inputs along with one Hi-Z input for direct connection with a guitar or bass. When your masterwork is ready, you can use over 100 built-in studio effects to enhance your tracks and use the pro-quality mastering effects to complete that studio sound.

It’s an Interface.

The R24 is more than a multi-track recorder. It's also a powerful workstation when using USB power for studio operation. Connect the R24 to your laptop or desktop computer via USB, launch your favorite DAW or use the included Cubase LE 5, and start laying down your production tracks. With simultaneous 8-in/2-out capability, you can record 16-bit/44.1kHz audio or capture high-definition 24-bit/96kHz audio via 2-in/2-out configuration. If you use the sampling rate of 44.1kHz, the internal DSP effects of the R24 are also usable on your computer tracks. Also, a dedicated control lets you adjust the mixing balance between the DAW playback sound and the direct sound for monitoring.

It’s a Controller.

Computers bring incredible control and power to the recording process, but they're not very intuitive when it comes to mixing, which makes your music come alive. So, when you’re ready to mix, the R24 is right there with you. Through a simple USB connection, you can control the transport and mixing functions of major DAW applications such as Cubase, Logic, and Sonar from the R24. No more mixing with a mouse! The R24’s innate mixing console feel and LED meter bridge makes mixing your tracks a pleasure.

[Noah Timan]

Right, now imagine such a thing built robustly for our production use, with proper P&G faders, a good EQ section, good mic preamps, good meters and displays, tailored comm ports, and all of our industry standards (eg Broadcast Wave files, timecode, metadata, appropriate connectors, AES42 options, etc) and well, we'd be getting there (he says, as he walks out the door to go work with his 20 year old, 25 lb analog mixer and 6 year old, 18 lb digital recorder).

I don't think that's going to happen for $500 or even $5000, but I'd still be interested in buying one even at a higher price.

[Tom Visser]

You know something I just noticed? Pretty much everyone puts pots on the left and meters / master section on the right... which makes sense I suppose if you think of things in terms of traditional and modern consoles. Being right handed, when doing bag ENG type work, I reach down with my right hand to do 1 hand adjustments. I really like having the main function selector and pots on the right hand side of my Nagra VI and the meters on the left. I tend to wear my bag a little canted so that the left is high and the right lower on my body. When I think about this logically, it makes sense to me, but Zaxcom, Sound Devices, Fostex, Sonosax, pretty much everyone, is exactly the opposite. Because it is the standard way of doing things, you probably never really thought about it before, but does anyone else share my observation that they would rather have the bag mixer's master / meter section on the left? That way you don't have to cross your body to adjust pots (if you use your right hand predominantly) and hands don't cover the meters... just a random thought. Is this a French / thing? Aaton is the only one I can think of that has meters left. Is the Nagra factory in the French or German part of Switzerland?

[RadoStefanov]

Good point Tom. Now when you mention it I feel the same..

Sent from my HD7 T9292 using Board Express

[Boomboom]

Every working day I think about that too, holding the boom with my left hand and operating the mixer with the right hand; I use the tip of fingers doing an ''arch'' with my hand over the meters so I can see them. I even asked some fellows if they used the same hands for the same things; some simply work ''reversed'' from their natural side, one I know sets the levels then goes by ear after, looking only from time to time at levels after.

Oh, mentionning Aaton here seems a bad idea... But maybe Aeta would be ok.

[James Arnold]

You know something I just noticed? Pretty much everyone puts pots on the left and meters / master section on the right... which makes sense I suppose if you think of things in terms of traditional and modern consoles. Being right handed, when doing bag ENG type work, I reach down with my right hand to do 1 hand adjustments. I really like having the main function selector and pots on the right hand side of my Nagra VI and the meters on the left. I tend to wear my bag a little canted so that the left is high and the right lower on my body. When I think about this logically, it makes sense to me, but Zaxcom, Sound Devices, Fostex, Sonosax, pretty much everyone, is exactly the opposite. Because it is the standard way of doing things, you probably never really thought about it before, but does anyone else share my observation that they would rather have the bag mixer's master / meter section on the left? That way you don't have to cross your body to adjust pots (if you use your right hand predominantly) and hands don't cover the meters... just a random thought. Is this a French / thing? Aaton is the only one I can think of that has meters left. Is the Nagra factory in the French or German part of Switzerland?

My second mention of the day for the UK's own SQN mixers...they have always had the meters on the left hand side. And yes, I much prefer it that way.

[brian albritton]

That way you don't have to cross your body to adjust pots (if you use your right hand predominantly) and hands don't cover the meters...

i'm right handed so it has always made sense to me to hold the boom in my dominant hand and make level adjustments with my left. i understand how you feel though, i always used to hate using the X5 because the meters are on the "wrong" side for me.

[Tom Visser]

i'm right handed so it has always made sense to me to hold the boom in my dominant hand and make level adjustments with my left. i understand how you feel though, i always used to hate using the X5 because the meters are on the "wrong" side for me.

Being right handed, when I surf or skate, I am regular footed or right foot back. If I go left, I don't switch stance, so am doing backside turns mostly. When booming, although sometimes I have to, I feel awkward booming with my right hand as the supporting hand. Right hand back feels natural for me. I just assumed that it was that way for everyone, but some of us are probably more ambidextrous than others.

[Boomboom]

Exactly; left foot ahead, left hand booming.

And I probalby use my right hand to make more precise work; search for the pots, push buttons, etc on the mixer while looking or not.

[MatthewFreedAudio]

I constantly switch back and forth from holding the boom with my left or right hand. Same with reaching for the knobs on my Fusion. It all depends on the shot. Let's say I'm mixing a standing interview where the key light is frame left. I want to place my body frame right so I can easily see the camera and the subject. If I face the other way my back is to the camera and I can't easily make eye contact with the people I need to see. Having the meters on the right side works 50% of the time. If they were on the left it would also work 50% of the time.

www.matthewfreed.com

Production Sound Mixing for TV, Films, and Commercials

[Wandering Ear]

I've always wished my 552 inputs were on the right instead of the left because I boom with my right hand back more often then not. It never bothered me much crossing my meters with my right hand though.

[André Boisvert]

I constantly switch back and forth from holding the boom with my left or right hand. Same with reaching for the knobs on my Fusion. It all depends on the shot. Let's say I'm mixing a standing interview where the key light is frame left. I want to place my body frame right so I can easily see the camera and the subject. If I face the other way my back is to the camera and I can't easily make eye contact with the people I need to see. Having the meters on the right side works 50% of the time. If they were on the left it would also work 50% of the time.

www.matthewfreed.com

Production Sound Mixing for TV, Films, and Commercials

Exactly. Another way to say it is that a triangle is created by you, the camera, and the action. And you always want to be facing the inside of that triangle to keep an eye on things. Half the time I'm booming right, and the other 60% I'm on the left.

Meters in the middle perhaps?

(Because I give 110%).