Zack Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 most people speaking negatively of the film or the process have not even seen the film. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 I think if youre going to make a narrative movie, then make a narrative movie. I hate all the documentary-style movies, in any genre. I don't need to see this one to change my opinion. If you dig the shitty home-video-looking vibe, then there are lots of choices for you. But this is a movie for ENTERTAINMENT, and to shoot live rounds to make it more "real" is just stupid. It's not real. It's a movie. Endagering people as a marketing tool is just wrong. If you want real, just cut together some real war footage. I'm sure there's lots of it out there. Then call it a documentary, and nobody will go see it. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 I didn't just see it as entertainment, it was informative and a not so documentary style movie... more of a hybrid of the two (if you saw it you might agree, or not). The film is to show weapons, tactics, and pay honor of our elite soldiers we seldom hear about.... if you're too scared to be a part of a production that is to film live fire training of these scenarios.... then don't, and for that matter don't watch it either. Who knows, a lot of what I saw was mostly not filmed with live fire (effects), however there were a few scenes that could have very well been done with live fire which to me really took me back to what it was like. The only ones making this into a propaganda/partisan debate are those that don't understand the details of why, what, and how they did it. I'm sure they weren't "stupid" enough to be shooting live rounds when it didn't make sense, this might account for the lack of fatalities reported from the making of the film. Maybe someday soon there will be a good insider article explaining this in more detail, for now though just be respectful of it... and to those that did such a great job, safely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dre Rivera Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 I believe the objective of the post was to give appreciation to Gene on his hard work. If the idea of live round and real seals doesn't appeal to you, you can't take away the fact that the shoot must have been physically demanding and difficult. For the nature of the film credit is due. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfisk Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Jeez. I say one thing and BAM! The reason I mentioned live rounds is because it's not the norm (I'm assuming here) on most productions. This creates a level of stress and organization in order to make it a safe production. My goal wasn't to say shooting live rounds made this movie more "real" or anything like that, just that it had to be insane for the crew. I don't know which scenes used live rounds and which ones didn't. Again, I think it would be great for Gene and Popper to write an article in Sound and Picture about their experience on this shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 I'm sure the movie-making experience was intense, to say the least. In no way am I knocking the crew here. But I would imagine that following around a bunch of housewives with a rig strapped to your chest is almost as hard and less rewarding, and I bet those guys wished they had a live round to put in their heads by the end of a day listening to that crap :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 I, too, have worked on shoots where live rounds were being used, and it absolutely adds to the stress of the entire project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSBELLA Posted February 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 D-Fisk, go check it out. Im pretty sure you will be able to decipher when they used live rounds. RP- your way off man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Way the hell off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfisk Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 D-Fisk, go check it out. Im pretty sure you will be able to decipher when they used live rounds. don't really know what soda told you, but it wasn't as much as this bacon post started. RP- your way off man. I really want to see it, but with 4 small kids, it's really hard to get out these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSBELLA Posted February 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 @ Zack +2 @ Dfisk- copy that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfisk Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 I asked him about the booming, and he said everyone was on wireless because they were shooting wide and tight all the time with a ton of cameras. I didn't get into a lot of details, though. I wonder if there was a documentary crew shooting a "Making Of" for this movie. I bet a lot of people would really like to see that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atheisticmystic Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 Mystic- please go see the movie, you will be pleasantly surprised. especially the use of when they used the live rounds. Thank you Frank, I will. ...for now though just be respectful of it... and to those that did such a great job, safely. I respect the tradecraft Zack, I don't owe any allegiance to a film just because it's about the military. Best, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 RP- you're way off man. I was being a bit sarcastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSBELLA Posted March 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 I was being a bit sarcastic. RS- I thought so. I know your a good mixer and have much respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Martin Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 Let me start off by saying that first and foremost the guys (SEAL's) in this movie deserve the utmost respect. They are not actors, they have never had any acting training but they were chosen for there knowledge, skill and involvement/relate-ability with the events that took place in this film or whatever you want to call it. The use of live fire was dependent on the scene. The reasoning for doing so was sometimes for visual purpose, but mainly because we would join actual Navy training missions that would be live fire. There were many times when we found ourselves wearing bullet proof vests (1/2 inch plates) and kevlar helmets, but there was NEVER any moment were I felt endangered while shooting this film. The idea was to make a movie that wasn't all CGI but was as realistic as possible. I'd like to note that this was nowhere near like "following around a bunch of housewives with a rig strapped to your chest" This was the most difficult job I have ever done and yes is was 95% wireless but I am very proud of what myself and what my guys were able to accomplish. I agree with Robert "that no ADR does not equal good sound," and yes there are some instances were I wish they had done ADR (the beach scene) but again remember these are not actors. So imagine what the ADR would have turned out like. The other fact people don't even think of is most of the guys in this movie have been deployed since filming ended. Stating that we worked off the idea of "stick radio mics on everyone and sort it out later" is a slap in the face. I'm sorry but mixing 8 lav's in a bag is a lot harder than 2 booms and yes my mix was primarily used not the iso tracks. Obviously I would have preferred being on a cart and booming every scene but as we all know we have to do what we can to get the best possible sound. I'm proud we captured useable dialog during gunfire, in C-130's, in submarines, on aircraft carriers and from vehicles driving 50+ mph. It was a hard challenging shoot. There was no, hey can we do this without the helicopter running. There were scenes that we did rely on the Zaxcom transmitters internal recording, but it was for situations like helicopters. This film may not be for everyone and maybe shouldn't have done as well as it has, but it gave me once in a life time opportunities that I'm glad I was a part of. Gene Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 Let me start off by saying that first and foremost the guys (SEAL's) in this movie deserve the utmost respect. They are not actors, they have never had any acting training but they were chosen for there knowledge, skill and evolvement/relate-ability with the events that took place in this film or whatever you want to call it. The use of live fire was dependent on the scene. The reasoning for doing so was sometimes for visual purpose, but mainly because we would join actual Navy training missions that would be live fire. There were many times when we found ourselves wearing bullet proof vests (1/2 inch plates) and kevlar helmets, but there was NEVER any moment were I felt endangered while shooting this film. The idea was to make a movie that wasn't all CGI but was as realistic as possible. I'd like to note that this was nowhere near like "following around a bunch of housewives with a rig strapped to your chest" This was the most difficult job I have ever done and yes is was 95% wireless but I am very proud of what myself and what my guys were able to accomplish. I agree with Robert "that no ADR does not equal good sound," and yes there are some instances were I wish they had done ADR (the beach scene) but again remember these are not actors. So imagine what the ADR would have turned out like. The other fact people don't even think of is most of the guys in this movie have been deployed sense filming ended. Stating that we worked off the idea of "stick radio mics on everyone and sort it out later" is a slap in the face. I'm sorry but mixing 8 lav's in a bag is a lot harder than 2 booms and yes my mix was primarily used not the iso tracks. Obviously I would have preferred being on a cart and booming every scene but as we all know we have to do what we can to get the best possible sound. I'm proud we captured useable dialog during gunfire, in C-130's, in submarines, on aircraft carriers and from vehicles driving 50+ mph. It was hard challenging shoot. There was no, hey can we do this without the helicopter running. There were scenes that we did rely on the Zaxcom transmitters internal recording, but it was for situations like helicopters. This film may not be for everyone and maybe shouldn't have done as well as it has, but it gave me once in a life time opportunities that I'm glade I was a part of. Gene Martin Amen Gene, thank you for your input! I really enjoyed the film, and the hard work from everyone involved! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianW Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 This film may not be for everyone and maybe shouldn't have done as well as it has, but it gave me once in a life time opportunities that I'm glade I was a part of. Gene Martin Awesome! What an opportunity, and serious props for overcoming all the difficulties involved in the task. ...this might account for the lack of fatalities reported from the making of the film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 Thanks for posting, Gene. It's great to hear details from the "firing line" (in this case, both figuratively and literally). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 ... I'd like to note that this was nowhere near like "following around a bunch of housewives with a rig strapped to your chest" ... Gene Martin You didn't get them drunk enough, except that house wives can generally hold their liquor better. I've done my share of carrying SEALs out of bars under their own power or not, even the really big / heavy ones. I'm amazed that there is a group of individuals who can trump "stupid Marine tricks" with "stupid SEAL tricks". Given that I haven't seen the movie and have been commenting on it, I now feel obligated to see it. I can tell you, that if I hear rock and roll music playing during a firefight, I'm going to be highly offended, but that's just me. From a technician's standpoint, Gene, I look up to the work you do and am glad to have the opportunity to "hang" out with the most experienced people in the community, which I am a thankful junior member of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 Gene, I wasn't criticizing your results or your method in any way. I am criticizing the fact that these types of "narrative" films have bled into the mainstream by making lav sound acceptable for all circumstances. And the housewives crack was just that, a joke. I have done some pretty crazy shoots, and found them to be far more fun and rewarding than the mundane. My joke was pointing out how awful it must be carrying a heavy bag while listening to "The Housewives of wherever'. Your job, no matter how tough, must have been a LOT more fun. Congrats on the success of the movie, Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Reilly Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 http://www.hurlbutvi...e-action-genre/ Apparently some of it was film. But yikes.. "Andy Fisher, armed with only a swimsuit, a water noodle and a 5D AquaTech shallow water housing. He captured some of the most immersive angles while bullets literally flew over his head and hot shells rained down." Heh (from comments) "Amazing work by you and your crew. But there was someone that you left out in all the patting on the back above. I saw several still images of your sound mixer/recordist. You didn’t mention him or the boom op. Who was it and what did he record to. The only shot of the sound bag I saw was a limited angle. Maybe a Sound Devices 788T with 4 Lectrosonics SR units and a boom. What, no love for your soundies?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Popp Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Nope, Zaxcom Deva or Fusion Recorder, and all Zaxcom Receivers "The only shot of the sound bag I saw was a limited angle. Maybe a Sound Devices 788T with 4 Lectrosonics SR units and a boom." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Martin Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Here is a picture of my bag while filming the movie. This was before the Zaxcom QRX and Mic plexer came out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Miramontes Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 I'm going to finally watch this movie today just so I can hear what a great job Gene did. I agree with Tom Visser in that I'm going to be a bit irritated if the violence is glorified. I support Gene and that's why I'm going to see this flick. He is a stand-up guy and has always treated me very well when I visit his shop. I think if anything I'm going to learn that I have no right to complain the next time an airplane/helicopter ruins one of my takes. I'm sure the location sound on this film was 100x's more difficult then anything I've ever done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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