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Red Epic Unbalanced Input "revisited" ERX1TCD Y Cable


RadoStefanov

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I am still seeking user confirmation that a unbalanced 3.5mm to unbalanced 3,5mm will work if I am feeding the Camera a scratch track via a Comtek.

According to Rados' post above there's a choice of Bal or Unbal in the audio menu. OTOH there's no reason an unbalanced source wouldn't work into a balanced input assuming the the ring and the ground are tied together at one end and it's tip/sleeve at the other.

Eric

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Hesitant to dive in, but here goes:

I've been working with Epics since last summer, here's what I've learned.

I wired up a couple of XLR to TRS balanced adapter cables per the Red manual wiring scheme cited above and have had success. Unbalanced signal to the camera have given me very mixed results - sometimes a channel drops out, noise, etc.

FYI, the first Epics that shipped didn't turn off Phantom power to the TRS inputs, even when it was switched off in the menu. This meant that the first time you unplugged the TRS while the camera was plugged in, poof - input fried.

Re: Wooden Camera thing. This just looks like a passive adapter cable pair with chassis mount XLR-Fs. For $200. I have a client wanting to but one. Does anyone have further info? The manufacturer's website is mum on the electronics...

Good luck. Until Red changes something in a month and we have to go through all this again.

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Re: Wooden Camera thing. This just looks like a passive adapter cable pair with chassis mount XLR-Fs. For $200. I have a client wanting to but one. Does anyone have further info? The manufacturer's website is mum on the electronics...

I own the A-Box and you are right- it is just a passive adapter pair with a chassis mount. It would be great if there was built in phantom power, but it will pass through once Red enables this on camera...which will not be soon.

Other than that, I'm really happy with it because the chassis comes with a 15mm bushing that you can securely mount to the side of the camera's top plate and the XLRs lock in place.

You can't see the actual A-box in the attached photo, but I mount my G2 hop to a hot shoe that I rigged up on the top handle and run the locking TRS to XLR cable to the upward facing box. Nice and clean and out of the cam-op's way.

You can see the A-Box cables plugged into the audio inputs on the front of the camera. The bushing screws in on the side of the top plate, second 1/4 20 hole down. Everything is screwed in, snapped closed and tight.

Just look out for any stray flares because they are hot and will burn your hands.

post-3250-0-01270600-1330974555.jpg

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On the Epic shoots that I did, I used a G2 to send a scratch track. which must be an unbalanced connection, at the RED end, the 1/8" shield and ring must be tied together, or use a mono 1/8" plug.. like I did. A consumer type stereo L-R 1/8" plug (like the Hosta XVS series) WILL NOT pass audio.. though the Epic will indicate an audio input connection.

I would think using either the Tip and/or Ring from the Comtek would work. but that would be unbalanced at the Red end as above. I assume a pad may be needed as well.

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Following up - I spoke with the boys at Pro-Sound. They suggested I make a cable that combines the L and R feeds (tip and ring) from the ERX to the tip only of the connector that goes into the RED Epic.

Red is using a mini TRS connector as a balanced mic connection, tip is +, ring is -, sleeve is ground. A cable wired with this in mind should work to get signal into the Red. Presumably you'll want a cable with a mini TS on one end and a mini TRS on the other wired tip to tip and sleeve to ring and sleeve. In theory, a mini TS to mini TS cable should work fine. The Epic audio inputs must be selected for either balance or unbalanced use in the setup menu. I'm going to do some testing tomorrow or Monday if I can get to a camera.

Best regards,

Jim

Though reading this, perhaps I'll make this cable as well...

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I am still seeking user confirmation that a unbalanced 3.5mm to unbalanced 3,5mm will work if I am feeding the Camera a scratch track via a Comtek.

Edit: The client wants to 'buy' a C=Wooden camera adapter box, not 'but' one.

No need for the box.

Just follow the wiring.

I was feeding it unbalanced signal and time code from ERX1TCD.

The other mixer was feeding mic level balanced from TA3 to 3.5 cable that I made.

The trick is to plug your headphones in to the red and listen to the signal it is getting.

Disclaimer: I was only listening to the audio from the ERX1TCD.

On a different note:

Nomad and 5 erx1tcds have been flawless and amazingly easy to work with today.

People who noticed were very impressed with my setup.

ERX1TCD was feeding time code and scratch track to Reds, and IFB to client.

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Scarlet shoot coming up soon. camera rental house has had TC cables made up as per advice given on this forum. thanks everybody. regarding wooden box device: when inputting G2 signal to box (unbalanced connection) does the wooden box then convert to a balanced signal, or simply pass through the G2's unbalanced signal? not clear in their ihfo. I'm guessing no conversion.

Chris Newton

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On a different note:

Nomad and 5 erx1tcds have been flawless and amazingly easy to work with today.

People who noticed were very impressed with my setup.

ERX1TCD was feeding time code and scratch track to Reds, and IFB to client.

That's a GOOD "different note", Rado. I'm glad people were impressed, but more importantly that YOU were impressed. Keep up the good work, be happy.

...and thanks for updating us all... much nicer to see the word "flawless" in your post rather than the word "woe".

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Copy from other post:

On a different note.

I worked 12 hours jumping from this:

http://www.lasvegass...s-vegas-valley/

0306windsm02_t653.jpg?214bc4f9d9bd7c08c7d0f6599bb3328710e01e7b

" in the desert was even worst then the city"

to this 100F rain forest:

The harshest environment I have ever worked in!!!!!!!!!

Senheiser MKH was "as always" working perfectly.

And the Nomad was flawless using the MIRROR On Option.

Crazy wind and dust followed by crazy heat and humidity.

Going from one extreme to the other.

After work I spend 3 hours cleaning, dusting and vacuuming.

When I vacuumed around my power switch I slid the power button back and forward to get optimum dust out and magically my power button started working again.

I guess the vacuum sucked the ball in place.

So my Nomad is 100% operational at the moment and quickly earning my trust.

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About the RED EPIC:

Few things I noticed.

1. I believe the meters on camera are not enabled if the output level is turned down. Or are just output meters.

Feeding TONE from ERX1TCD with proper wiring unbalanced cable was showing no meter action and there was nothing in the headphones.

I went in to the output menu in the RED and turned the output up.

Magically the RED started showing in the meters.

SO MAKE SURE THE THE OUTPUT LEVEL IS TURNED ON IF YOU ARE FEEDING AUDIO IN.

2. When feeding TC go in the TC menu on RED and select: EXTERNAL and TOD.

One of the Reds jammed "started receiving TC" right away and the other did not. After a reboot the second camera was jammed as well.

SO IF THE CAMERA DOES NOT WANT TO ACCEPT YOUR RECORDER TC FEED - RESTART THE CAMERA.

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I fed an Epic with a G2 using the short stock mini to mini cable (one side is locking). Worked fine. Offhand I do not know how they are wired, but they are TRS. The cables are at home and I'm on the road.

I was also feeding TC from an SB-3.

Rado - thanks for all the updates! Did you ever figure out the TC bleed on the scratch track? Wouldn't be a deal breaker, but curious.

I think I need to invest in some Zaxcom IFB.

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Rado - thanks for all the updates! Did you ever figure out the TC bleed on the scratch track? Wouldn't be a deal breaker, but curious.

I think I need to invest in some Zaxcom IFB.

Noting can be done about the bleed.

Both cameras were affected when fed unbalanced

I tried to feed scratch track from one ERX1TCD and TC from another.

The bleed was still there.

Feeding it balanced Mic level will IMHO fix it.

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That's my point. Even if only outputting audio, there is timecode bleeding into that audio stream from inside the ERXTCD itself. Balanced connection to the epic is not going to fix it. If you send TC from one erx, and audio from another, the audio one is still going to have bleed in it, no matter what.

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On the Epic shoots that I did, I used a G2 to send a scratch track. which must be an unbalanced connection, at the RED end, the 1/8" shield and ring must be tied together, or use a mono 1/8" plug.. like I did. A consumer type stereo L-R 1/8" plug (like the Hosta XVS series) WILL NOT pass audio.. though the Epic will indicate an audio input connection.

I would think using either the Tip and/or Ring from the Comtek would work. but that would be unbalanced at the Red end as above. I assume a pad may be needed as well.

+1

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