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a supercar issue


Mattafact

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Hello all,

Im just wondering if anyone knows how to record supercars and then make the seem really loud in a mix without distortion

I recorded it fine (without going deaf) but the editor did the mix and its way too loud

Heres the link:

I have since had a grab at a newer version and wanted your thoughts,

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks :-)

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Multiple microphones in various places and ISO tracks. The channels need to be checked for accurate phase and perspective according to the final picture edit.

Overall blend should be appropriate for the overall mix. If the listener wants it louder that's what the volume knob on their stereo/home theater/iPod is for.

www.matthewfreed.com

Production Sound Mixing for TV, Films, and Commercials

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Yeah! IT'S A BIT LOUD!!!

Ironically, a lot of it has to do with artistic choices other than the actual level of the car sound in the mix. Yes, that's part of it, but how the Editor assembles the images is every bit a factor, and to a large degree determines what the post soundies can do with it.

This particular piece is a little too "MTV style" for

my taste... the intro is great -- there's a sense of anticipation, but as soon as the car gets moving, the quick jittery cuts (and fully pegged meters) actually detract from the desired effect, IMHO.

Great images (and sound) are largely about tension and resolution -- just like music... if it's all tension, you have a John Cage piece (no offense to Mr. Cage -- I really appreciate his work)... and conversely, if it's all resolution, you have what I call "air pudding" -- elevator music.

The trick is to keep it moving, build tension, let it resolve just enough to keep that emotional investment in the viewer (listener)... and then build it some more.

The super car piece is pretty cool, but I think in order to achieve what you're after in terms of apparent loudness vs. actual loudness in the mix, the edit would have to change a bit... you'd need some space and some time to create some contrast -- both visually and aurally.

An object (in this case, a car) will seem (in this case, louder) if it put up against a quieter backdrop... more like in the beginning of the piece. What it turned out like (IMO) is something more along the lines of premature ejac...

Sorry, trying to think of a better analogy... anyhow... I don't think there's anything wrong with the actual recording (acquisition) of the car sounds... I just think the editor needs to lay off the cocaine. Kidding, just kidding... sort of. No offense. I'll shut up now.

~tt

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On location:

The mic choice (it needs to be able to handle the SPLs) and positioning, as well as making sure you have sufficient headroom throughout the recording chain.

In post:

The proper application of E.Q., compression and limiting (miss-applied compression could squash the sound rather than help it), mix levels, and what similar, or complementary, treatments you apply to the other tracks.

For instance, if you identify a frequency band that really "speaks" to what the car is doing, you can add a bit of E.Q. peak there and a bit of complementary E.Q. dip on the other tracks. You'd want to do that at a frequency (or frequencies) that doesn't diminish the other track but that adds to the overall feel of the car track. Using a combination of these treatments can embellish the overall effect but make the sound "sit" in the mix better.

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The OP said the original field recording was fine -- that the Editor cranked it up in the mix. Based on that, one can assume the Editors mix to be the source of distortion. If on the other hand, if the original recording is distorted... sound library time... either way, the piece needs work... and personally, I'd start with the picture edit and clean it up a bit.

~tt

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Even the music is distorted at the end. Seems everything was too high.I agree with Taylor..once the car roar got so loud early on, there was no room to build between it and the music.

+1

Was just going to say the same thing about the music at the end. The on-car audio sounds distorted to me, too, and since similar distortion is on the music at the end it leads me to think it just needs to be remixed to get it right, with more sensitivity to overall loudness levels. I also agree some editing to leave some breathing room / contrast would help a ton. Have the editor turn up his/her monitors and turn down the faders, and a little eq as was suggested earlier.

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Thanks guys, I know it way to painful even when you turn it down, its completley f;+%#'d from that perspective but was wanting tips for when I can get in there before him, my recording had headroom and handled it fine, I guess I just need to tweak it and then people can raise the volume of the GOOD sound instead of having no choice :-)

Thanks again,

If interested ill post results of one I can get my hands on, filming in miami next week.

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I think some of the shots of the car at a distance sound pretty good. I think what is happening is a massive mid-bass buildup from the close mic'd engine compartment, or wherever those mics were placed. You have to remember that an audience's perception of what something sounds like is from outside of the car, usually quite far away. They never have the opportunity to hear the inside of a car or in most cases, even close to a car. Those massive sounds in many case can't be easily translated to a limited dynamic range recording or playback environment.

The opportunity for the sound designer is to bring the listener into a more intimate environment with the car, using a combination of real and manipulated sounds. I think the high frequency sound that is instantly recognizable to the average joe should be the forefront sound element and then some additional meat / body / rumble can be creatively mixed in to thicken the natural far sound. What I mostly hear is a mid-bass that is simply muddying up the mix to the point where the sound is no longer really recognizable to the viewer or very pleasant to hear.

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I think some of the shots of the car at a distance sound pretty good. I think what is happening is a massive mid-bass buildup from the close mic'd engine compartment, or wherever those mics were placed. You have to remember that an audience's perception of what something sounds like is from outside of the car, usually quite far away. They never have the opportunity to hear the inside of a car or in most cases, even close to a car. Those massive sounds in many case can't be easily translated to a limited dynamic range recording or playback environment.

The opportunity for the sound designer is to bring the listener into a more intimate environment with the car, using a combination of real and manipulated sounds. I think the high frequency sound that is instantly recognizable to the average joe should be the forefront sound element and then some additional meat / body / rumble can be creatively mixed in to thicken the natural far sound. What I mostly hear is a mid-bass that is simply muddying up the mix to the point where the sound is no longer really recognizable to the viewer or very pleasant to hear.

Well said. The editor should read this. Tom is spot on here.

Yeah, I suspect if one were to run the louder engine sounds through a parametric, around -12dB @ 400Hz with a wide Q for starters, then dial it WAY back in the mix, and like Tom says -- rely on some other manipulated sounds to create that low-end-feel-it-in-your-gut rumble.

Anyhow, I'd love to hear how it turns out. Good luck!

~tt

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Yeah, that waveform looks fine... and it sounds great through my KRK's... not too much more low end listening on the V8's compared to the V4's... I think the biggest problem was as we suspected all along -- just way too hot a mix (not to mention certain aforementioned creative choices...) Ugh... where to even start (just watched the original piece again) yeah, it's painful... lots to do there.

~tt

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  • 1 month later...

The edit was great up until the car took off. It seemed the editor was using volume and abrupt cuts to try to be the trick he needed to increase intensity. It didn't work at all. Made me nausious.

The sound fx and music mix should drive the energy and emotion of the edit even if they diverge from what the picture is doing. Even the nausiating edits could have a smoother feel if the sound bridged the cuts instead of being tied directly to them.

I'd try light to heavy compression on engine sounds. Tonality will give you the sense of speed and intensity. Volume abused like that will just send your audience jumping for the remote.

Lowender is a great, inexpensive subharmonic synthesizer plugin that will add a lot of booty to the engine. It's easy to overdo, so again this may be a job best left to a sound designer who can test the mix on various speakers.

To avoid the massive distortion in the mix, have the editor crank up his speakers, preferrably using tone to calibrate it to a reference level. Gearslutz' post production board has plenty of info on calibration. The master bus needs a soft to medium compressor followed by a limiter. IMO, the less experience you have with compression, the lighter you should apply it.

Other than the sound problems, the entire driving scene needs a rework from the ground up. IMO going to the vomit edit intensity like that was just a wrong direction. When in doubt, just search for other similar racing edits and match the pace of edits. Look for what they are doing to build intensity with music and when, where, why, and how sfx are used.

Good luck! It's a fantastic set of footage. I'm sure with the right work, it will turn out to be a great end product.

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