Darlene Drake Posted March 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Darlene, Thanks for taking my earlier comment with the grain of salt it was intended with. I'm curious which boom you prefer for your outdoor work -- the 60 or the 416? I ask because that might be a clue to what you'd like best in a cardioid or super-cardioid. I'll add that I'm only guessing here because I currently own neither a 50 nor an Audix but I'm familiar with both of the booms you have. My guess, based on what I think I know about these two mics, is that if you prefer the 416 for its reach and dialog bite, you might lean toward the 50 over the Audix. The 60 is a little more "subdued" in character, while the 70 and 50 have a bit more "excitement" in their sound. But, of course, mic choice is a personal preference thing, so maybe renting and making your own determination would be ideal. I don't know if the Audix is easily available via rental. You might be able to work out a "try before you buy" for the 50 with one of the "usual suspects" audio dealers. I own several Schoeps which are my go-to mics for indoors, but I'd consider getting an MKH-50 one of these days for its tighter pattern and superior climate resistance. That brings up another possibility, a used Schoeps CMC4 (T-Power) and MK41 capsule combination. Used, they are in your price range and a 48v phantom to T-Power adapter is under $40. The Schoeps requires a bit more care, however, in terms of atmospheric exposure. Basically, if you keep the screw-on connections clean and store it with some climate considerations (silica gel for moisture control) they'd be an excellent choice -- especially for narrative work where naturalness reigns supreme. Also, the edges of the Schoeps 41 capsule lend themselves to smoother fall-off than do most other hyper-cardioids. It makes booming a little smoother. Hi John, Thanks for your reply/wisdom. The MKH60 was the first mic I owned for boom work. Then I had a chance to buy the 416 and have been using that as the main mic ever since. Schoeps does produce a fine microphone (and my mixer does have T power available), but I'm concerned with humidity issues. Because of that, I'm leaning more towards the MKH50 at this point. Good suggestion to try before buying. I'll certainly do that! Thanks again! Darlene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Hi John, Thanks for your reply/wisdom. The MKH60 was the first mic I owned for boom work. Then I had a chance to buy the 416 and have been using that as the main mic ever since. Schoeps does produce a fine microphone (and my mixer does have T power available), but I'm concerned with humidity issues. Because of that, I'm leaning more towards the MKH50 at this point. Good suggestion to try before buying. I'll certainly do that! Thanks again! Darlene Just consider how often you think humidity will actually be an issue. Where do you work? And you are going to use it indoors. And you will have the 416 around. Why not sell your 60 and try to buy a 50 and a CMC541 or CMC441? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 If you've been using a 416 then you're going to love the MKH50. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darlene Drake Posted March 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Just consider how often you think humidity will actually be an issue. Where do you work? And you are going to use it indoors. And you will have the 416 around. Why not sell your 60 and try to buy a 50 and a CMC541 or CMC441? I'll always have my 416 around I never thought about selling my 60. Guess it would be like selling my first child. But maybe it's time to... Darlene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 I'll always have my 416 around I never thought about selling my 60. Guess it would be like selling my first child. But maybe it's time to... Darlene You could think of it as your first child getting a new job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 I'm a schoeps guy. My kitchen show has us going from big restaurant kitchens, booming over boiling pots, to outdoors freezing humid raining all in a day, and my ccm41 never let me down once and it's lovely on a boom. Betting it's a bit thinner than the 641. Schoeps is amazing. Sennheiser too, but the smoothness of the schoeps lends itself very much to this type of eng work when suddenly you have to boom someone whose not laved, his/her head turning with every word, camera on a wide... Lovely! I could never have done that as good with a mkh50. I certainly couldn't be mixing while booming. I like the reach, it's not 50 reach, but it's good enough, and the size is of course extremely handy for those low kitchen fans. Works great outdoors. Also, the schoeps sounds great for the Swedish language. We have a lot of hard and harsh consonants and weird vowels.. Sennheiser's good too but it's too much in your face IMHO, for Swedish. English is a lot better with mkh50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Also, the schoeps sounds great for the Swedish language. We have a lot of hard and harsh consonants and weird vowels.. Sennheiser's good too but it's too much in your face IMHO, for Swedish. English is a lot better with mkh50. This is an issue nobody thinks about! I've noticed so many times how different languages could have more sibilants, dentals etc. etc. while mics are tested almost 99,9% of the times with english spoken people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 I think Schoeps will always be my favorite mics for dialog acquisition... I've warned others of condensation issues with Schoeps mics simply because I think if I'm gonna suggest a mic, not making a person aware of it's shortcomings is doing them a disservice... That said, despite occasional condensation issues, Schoeps really are amazing mics -- their off-axis coloration (lack thereof) and overall warmth have made them the industry standard for decades. As long as you have something like a 416 upon which to fall back, I highly doubt you'll ever regret purchasing a Schoeps. Then there are also components like the GVC swivels that raise the cool factor a few notches as well (if you've never used a Schoeps Collette series with a GVC swivel, once you do, you'll wonder how you ever got along without it.) The condensation issue happens infrequently -- but it does happen -- just being aware of it and having a contengency will likely keep you out of trouble. ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pindrop Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Never had any condensation problems whatsoever with any of my three Schoeps CCM's over many years in all sorts of challenging circumstances. Have condensation problems got something to do with the capsules being interchangeable on the Collette series? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 I think it's just Schoeps mics in general -- I've had it happen to my CMIT5u, both CMC4/41's, and both CMC6/41's... always when it's cold, usually doing EXT's, but it's happened with INT's as well (a swimming pool most recently comes to mind... it was cold outside, warm and humid inside... I anticipated it happening and was able to switch out before it became a problem) -- maybe I'm just lucky to work predominantly in an area where the "perfect combination" of temperature and humidity cause this to happen more frequently... maybe I'm just that lucky... I've tried silica gel packs, different storage techniques... I'm pretty meticulous with my gear, but it still happens from time to time... after some research, I've pretty much just come to the conclusion that having a 416 ready to go is the best remedy. I still absolutely love my Schoeps mics though ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Orusa Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 You can't go wrong with many of the mics mentioned already. A Sennheiser 416 is a great choice, as is a Schoeps. I think it's just Schoeps mics in general -- I've had it happen to my CMIT5u, both CMC4/41's, and both CMC6/41's... always when it's cold, usually doing EXT's, but it's happened with INT's as well I've worked with Tom and experienced the issue with Schoeps mics first hand. Going from ~45-50 F exterior to a humid and warm ~75-80 F interior caused the CMC/MK41 combo to motor boat and eventually shut off altogether. This is due to the construction of the mic and condensation forming on the mic element. This is just like fog forming on a camera lense. The 416 uses a different kind of construction and is not affected by condensation/temperature changes. Having said that I own a CMIT-5U and CMC6/MK41 and have yet to have that happen to me. I love Schoeps, but having a 416 as backup is a good idea. Mark PS - Tom do you remember the forum where someone discussed in detail how the various condenser mics work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 Hey Mark, I'll do some digging tomorrow, see if I can find the link... yeah, that familiar motor-boating, and the gradual S/N shift (with that characteristic ever-increasing white-noise like hiss)... LOVE Schoeps, but will never leave home without the 416 : ) ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 Here you go Mark: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=135763.0 : ) ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 I'll add that I used Schoeps mics while working for various different mixers. The only trouble I had was during extreme temperature and humidity changes, without time for acclimation. And had some issues with RF from Modulus transmitters, which are rapidly becoming a thing of the past. Most of the time, they were rock solid and sounded beautiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 I'll add that I used Schoeps mics while working for various different mixers. The only trouble I had was during extreme temperature and humidity changes, without time for acclimation. And had some issues with RF from Modulus transmitters, which are rapidly becoming a thing of the past. Most of the time, they were rock solid and sounded beautiful. The Modulus problem was probably before Schoeps issued the more RF resistant version of the CMC6 preamp. NOTE: You can tell the updated preamp by the fact that it has a gold colored groundplane surrounding the pins in the XLR connector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 You can't go wrong with many of the mics mentioned already. A Sennheiser 416 is a great choice, as is a Schoeps. I've worked with Tom and experienced the issue with Schoeps mics first hand. Going from ~45-50 F exterior to a humid and warm ~75-80 F interior caused the CMC/MK41 combo to motor boat and eventually shut off altogether. This is due to the construction of the mic and condensation forming on the mic element. This is just like fog forming on a camera lense. The 416 uses a different kind of construction and is not affected by condensation/temperature changes. Having said that I own a CMIT-5U and CMC6/MK41 and have yet to have that happen to me. I love Schoeps, but having a 416 as backup is a good idea. Mark PS - Tom do you remember the forum where someone discussed in detail how the various condenser mics work? Mark, I also found this: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-acoustic-music-location-recording/222342-schoeps-mk41-vs-sennheiser-416-boom-op.html ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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