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Unrealistic Expectations on Set


BAB414

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I could really use some advice here.

I interviewed to mix a feature, where about half the scenes take place between a mother and her two small children. All three of them have lines, the children are the woman's real children and are non-actors, and the mother is the director.

At the interview, we talked about my gear, schedule, budget, etc, and the four producers basically told me that laving the kids would probably not be an option. I told them that sounded reasonable as long as I can boom and/or stash mics. They said OK.

I got the job and I show up on set the first day, and the first thing the director tells me is that I can't boom the kids, because they don't want the kids to feel intimidated, and because they want to get a lot "improv" when the kids don't know that we're rolling. This is when I find out they are her real kids, and this is when I learn that the kids are not actors. This is also when I learn that THE KIDS ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO REALIZE THEY ARE BEING FILMED, EVER.

How do you even begin to make a movie like this? How do you not tell your sound mixer this before he accepts the job? I don't understand how the kids won't see the 5d (yes, 5d feature) and not put two and two together.

Don't get me wrong, I love the opportunity to stash mics (actually one of my favorite things do to as a mixer), but since the kids don't know we're making a movie, I can't get a blocking rehearsal to inform my decisions, and I don't have enough gear, the right combination of gear, and enough tracks to be able to stash mics everywhere and know that I'll be getting usable sound.

They saw my gear list, which includes: a 416, 2 ck93's, a ck91, and 3 g3's, all going to a 552. Even though I wouldn't call it a micro-budget, it's pretty much clear that additional rentals are out of the question. I told the assistant producer(/AD) and he said we'd talk about it.

It should also be mentioned that this is a very small "intimate" shoot with very minimal crew.

Can someone please tell me how I should approach this from a technical standpoint and also from a political standpoint? As always, your expertise is very much appreciated.

SEE UPDATE BELOW - REPLY #44

SEE UPDATE BELOW - REPLY #71

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Let's look at what they have told you:

You can't put lavs on them.

You can't boom them.

You can't plant mics because you can't block the scenes.

All this means you won't be able to hear them.

I think you have fallen in with some folks who don't know what they are doing.

The way I see it, the only shot you have is hiding a mic on Mom and hoping she gets close enough to the kids to pick up the entire conversation. Maybe you can plant multiple mics in a room you know they will be shooting in.

They haven't given you a recipe for success.

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I think Steve has it. Plant mics on the mom (maybe one on each side, kid height, and one in the front) and let both her and any other powers-that-be know that it's her responsibility to stay near enough to the "actors" so the audio will be usable. i.e. put the onus on her.

That way, their "unique" concept is no longer your problem; it's now hers.

(And, what Angelo said.)

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I agree with the main sentiment. They are making a whole lot of mistakes, and they will have to learn from them if they ever want to make a successful movie. I treat these filmmakers like I would a student. It will be their learning experience. In the meantime, you can use it as an excuse to experiment with mic placement, etc.

But, I doubly agree... get your check before you give them the files.

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One thing you could do, after explaining all of the above, is insist on having a lot of control over the environment you shoot in. Carpets, drapes, pillows, furnie pads... whatever you can do to soften every hard surface you find... to deaden the crap out of it so that you can, even if only minimally, reduce the damage done by poor mic placement. And since you'll have to reach for those distant voices, kill every extraneous noise you can control.

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Run away. ;-) Sadly if you do pull it off you will attract more productions just like it. Young kids are difficult to boom at the best of times, ( they stare at the mic) difficult to shoot as well. How is this brilliant director planning on cutting this feature? How many cameras? Cos one ain't gonna do it. Try at least 3 and leave the camera mics up, it will be hell for the DOP as well. The kids may figure it out when they are asked to repeat something, and all the lights may be a tell. Run away. The director is about to get an education on film making. Make sure you get paid, whatever happens with the sound you will wear it, it won't be the directors brilliant concept. Don't you just love unscripted crap.

Magic will happen, problem is the cameras won't be rolling when it happens. Expect long days and cranky kids. There are labor rules on kids as well, but I'm sure mom doesn't know about that either. ;-)

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Perhaps think about mic'ing clothing or accessories. Cut some seams and rig a jacket or hello kitty backpack the kid is forced to wear all day. (by mom director)

"Timmy, listen to mommy, if you wear your he-man backpack all day today mom will make you a batch of chocolate chip cookies. Ok?"

Hide the tx with padding. Fresh lithiums will go all day in a g3. Find wardrobe that is friendly to hiding your transmitters. That's all I got.

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personally I'd just get the hell out of there, they sound like a bunch of morons. If you really want to stay there explain to them that it's either radio mics on the kids or boom or ADR the whole lot. That is unless it's a feature documentary which gives you different parameters and a bunch of place mics might work. One thing to try is getting them to wear jackets and pre rigging lavs and Tx's into them, they just put them on and your good to go, if they get hot and want to take them off then their mother can just put them in time out till they cool off.

Good luck,

C.

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God, what a nightmare. I have only walked out once on a client job (and the last time was 25 years ago, and my boss talked me back into it), but there's definitely a time when you have to "know when to hold 'em, and when to fold 'em."

I can't see a way to win in this situation. The director is a pompous ass for withholding this information.

Why is the director so sure the camera(s) and lights won't intimidate the kids? My take is, kids are a lot more resilient than you think. I worked with a couple of 8 year olds a couple of months ago, and they were total champs who had only a little bit of on-set experience. Kids see enough movies, they understand what's "real" and what's "play acting," and I think after awhile, they'll forget about a planted lav, a wireless, a boom, or anything.

If it had been me, I would've waited until the end of the day and said, "hey, this is really an untenable situation -- we need to have a serious meeting here." I'd lay it all out, and if they still said no, I'd say, "let me recommend you a couple of replacements for me. But I warn you, they're going to give you the exact same advice I did."

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I am sure, based on the description of the OP that they are using available light and perhaps planted cameras, or "pretending" the cameras are doing something else. We don't know how young these kids are. But however old they are, it's a stupid idea, unless it is documentary or documentary-style, then the loose sound on the kids can be justified (although not good).

The advice to walk away might be good, if you feel they unwilling to help you sort out a reasonable solution.

They might never make another movie again (likely), but you appear to be at the beginning of your career. You might not want this to be a project by which you are judged.

Good luck,

Robert

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" the children are the woman's real children and are non-actors, and the mother is the director. "

there it all was, and in the first paragraph...

and then...

" and the four producers "

in the next graff...

but in the third graff: " THE KIDS ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO REALIZE THEY ARE BEING FILMED, EVER."

you need to improve your interviewing skills...

" How do you even begin to make a movie like this? How do you not tell your sound mixer this before he accepts the job? I don't understand how the kids won't see the 5d (yes, 5d feature) and not put two and two together. "

you don't, you don't and they will...

how did you not find this stuff out when you met with 5 of "them"..?? Did they lie to you? (they obviously misled you!)

These are wanna' bee's, major flakes, with a 5D and no clue...

" kids are a lot more resilient than you think. " something else they are clueless about...

" why is the director so sure the camera(s) and lights won't intimidate the kids? " no lights, one kinda' hidden (planted) camera...

" They saw my gear list, " immaterial... even if they could have possibly comprehended it.

" I think you have fallen in with some folks who don't know what they are doing. " and that is a major understatement...

" how I should approach this from a technical standpoint " walk away " also from a political standpoint? " RUN!

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The production might just be too inexperienced to understand what they are asking for. If you like the job and the people, give them the benefit of the doubt and try to get them something usable--it will certainly be a challenge. Make sure they do some monitoring on the set and listening to playbacks, so they understand what they are getting, and have a chance to make changes if they want. If the people are demanding, unpleasant and cheap, well, you already have advice what to do....

phil p

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Without seeing a script or, at least, a plan for the production (if such a thing exists), it's not possible to know what expectations are. Perhaps the film will be told largely through narration like "Days of Heaven" or "Badlands." You might, possibly, fulfill all expectations by providing a good wireless track of the mother and picking up occasional tidbits from the children. I think that wiring her with a second pack on her back so you have mikes in the room in two directions is a good plan.

Explain to the people making the film that their requirements severely restrict what you can do to give them a clean track. Ask them to listen carefully to the results from the first one or two days so they can evaluate results. Agree to talk after that. It may be that they are very happy with the results you can get. Or, they may take that opportunity to revise their thinking. If they are unhappy with the results and expect you to repeal laws of physics, you can then politely withdraw.

David

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