Jason A Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Ran into a problem last week while jamming the Alexa via Lemo out on my TS-3. I jammed the slate from the Nomad. The camera was getting the timecode and displaying it via the readout, but after a few seconds the TC display would flash a couple times then go back to what I'm assuming was the internal clock. I ended up jamming to camera TC to save time, but wanted to know if this sounds familiar to anyone else. I didn't attempt to jam directly from the Nomad because of the jitter issue with the Nomad TC. Might have worked fine, but again didn't have time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I spent 3 months jamming a pair of Alexa from my TS3 slates. No problems at all. If it took the jam initially, then did something weird, I'd consider it a camera problem and have them check on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Saad Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Alexa must be set to EXT TC and also JAM SYNC. Albert Saad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound Intuition Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I'm doing this on my iPhone so bare with me. Very timely topic. I'm on a shoot now with two Alexa's. I jam from my Deva to two Deneke's SB2A's and to two TS 3's. The cameras indicate they are in sync and the on set DMT says they look like they hold TC with the slates. The problem is when it gets to post for transfer they say we have a 2-3 frame offset. They also say the cameras and slates are in sync but sound is not. It's not a consistant offset or they could deal with it. It varies from 2-3 or sometimes just 1. I am using a Deva V running version 7.46 at 23.98 48K. Any thoughts? I thought I would go back a couple of versio s on the Deva and see if that would help because it's not the first time I've done 23.98. But when Zaxcom took over the user group they don't seem to post the older software versions anymore. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan chiles Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I often jam Alexas from a TS-C. apart from the slate display being a second ahead, I have had no sync issues. Last weeks shoot was at 23.976. One thing we do however after jammingf is intentionally set the Alexa back to TC Source: INT not sure if it makes a difference but as the internal TC generator is now jammed from your source it should use the internal clock as reference after jamming.. makes sense i think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Did you follow the jamming procedure that Robert Kennedy outlined as shown on this JWS Resource page?: http://jwsoundgroup....rce/?page_id=46 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Very timely topic. I'm on a shoot now with two Alexa's. I jam from my Deva to two Deneke's SB2A's and to two TS 3's. The cameras indicate they are in sync and the on set DMT says they look like they hold TC with the slates. The problem is when it gets to post for transfer they say we have a 2-3 frame offset. They also say the cameras and slates are in sync but sound is not. It's not a consistant offset or they could deal with it. It varies from 2-3 or sometimes just 1. I am using a Deva V running version 7.46 at 23.98 48K. Well, the SB-2A is kind of old, but it's still got the TCXO crystal and should be stable. When was the last time it was aligned and checked by Denecke? If you're using two cameras, I think you're better off using the SB-T, because then they can genlock and slave timecode, which is more accurate. In some cases, you can get timecode phase issues, where it's a few microseconds out, enough that it rolls over to the next number and wreaks havoc. This is a huge issue with 3D shoots, where the frame rate, shutter phase, and timecode phase has to be absolutely identical between two cameras. I have seen digital cameras be a frame or two out, but it's usually a constant offset all day. To me, this is something the assistant editor should just fix in post by slipping the take and checking the claps. It literally takes an hour for them to manually check 100 takes (per camera), so it's not that big a deal; it's supposed to be part of their job. Having said that, another possible source of inconsistent drift is power cycling on the Deva. I've seen it lose a frame or two once in awhile, and I've always rejammed after that. I would also consider sending a scratch track to at least one camera, which might help narrow the culprit down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason A Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Yes. I did. After the timecode stops flashing (as listed in the resource page) the timecode reverts to what I'm assuming is the internal TC. Did you follow the jamming procedure that Robert Kennedy outlined as shown on this JWS Resource page?: http://jwsoundgroup....rce/?page_id=46 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound Intuition Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 Marc: Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. I was surprised when the rental house sent out the older SB-2A's but thats what we got. I am still getting a 2-3 frame offset but the wierd thing is it's not consistent. It can be early or late. I was fortunate to have Glenn Sanders come to set and we decided after talking to Howy that we would try a factory reset. That didn't help. I am going back to version 7.36 my last working version. I will let you know on Tuesday how Monday's transfers go. If that does not work I'm affraid I will have to try another Deva to see if I'm having trouble with mine. I cant see why I would I just finished a series in late January and had no issues. That was at 30FPS and on 35mm but TC is TC and changing frame rates should not matter. And John we have followed the jamming instuctions to a "T". Post says they have seen this with Deva's more than other machines. Have you heard of any body else having a problem with 7.46 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 If it's the Deva that might be drifting, try feeding it in continuous jam mode from an SB2 and see how that works. Keep us posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound Intuition Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 That's a good idea to try the continuous jam. I,m not sure why I didn't think of that. I will let you know the results but first I'm going to see if going back to version 7.36 from 7.46 helps (some how I don''t think so) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 " I cant see why I would I just finished a series in late January and had no issues. " CRAP happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Sorensen Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 " I spent 3 months jamming a pair of Alexa from my TS3 slates. No problems at all. If it took the jam initially, then did something weird, I'd consider it a camera problem and have them check on it." Hey Robert, why wasn't a an Ambiant Lockit or Deneke SB-2 not used on the Alexa's your show? just curious. Kevin~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 Because the guts of the SB-2/SB-3 are inside the TS-3. It's the same thing. Using the slates require no additional gear and the ACs typically always have the slates nearby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound Intuition Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 Well after two weeks of shooting I think Post and I agree with the Senator "CRAP happens " I followed the jamming instructions as described and even left the Denecke"s plugged into the Alexa"s. Same result. After having Glenn on set I contacted Howy and we went back to my last known working software. 7.36 from 7.46 with a factory reset. Same result. I then borrowed a friends V for a day with 7.46 to see if it was my machine having the error. It was marginally better with a 1-2 frame offset but not frame accurate. So I thought I could go into the menu setting and try using the offset function in the TC but because it's not a consistent offset post said not to bother. The dailies are getting done and I have gotten the night transfer guy to stop putting it on the lab report if it's not problem and to stop sending up red flags to those that have no idea what it really means other than to say "We're not in sync". Has any one else using a Deva had this issue? Transfer says they see this more with Zaxcom then other products? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 Perhaps use one of the SB2a as external generator for your Deva and use the other to let camera jam the Alexa. There is no need to leave a TC box on the Alexa camera. It contains one of the most stable clocks in the world. With slates and cameras holding strong, it's clear where the problem lies. Just do your best to find a solution until you can send in the Deva. Not sure of the guts, but maybe they need to replace your TC/clock circuitry. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 A test? Jam TC to your Deva and to an outboard TC gen like SB2 or a slate, let them run, shoot a pic of both displays at once ? Maybe your recorder is drifting? phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ao Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Well after two weeks of shooting I think Post and I agree with the Senator "CRAP happens " I followed the jamming instructions as described and even left the Denecke"s plugged into the Alexa"s. Same result. After having Glenn on set I contacted Howy and we went back to my last known working software. 7.36 from 7.46 with a factory reset. Same result. I then borrowed a friends V for a day with 7.46 to see if it was my machine having the error. It was marginally better with a 1-2 frame offset but not frame accurate. So I thought I could go into the menu setting and try using the offset function in the TC but because it's not a consistent offset post said not to bother. The dailies are getting done and I have gotten the night transfer guy to stop putting it on the lab report if it's not problem and to stop sending up red flags to those that have no idea what it really means other than to say "We're not in sync". Has any one else using a Deva had this issue? Transfer says they see this more with Zaxcom then other products? let me know if you want to borrow my denecke gr1. I am about to put it on ebay, but will wait to hear from you first. ao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamTimmer Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 I had this problem when I used my deva 5.8 as the master TC source. I now continuous jam my deva with my 744t's ambient timecode and all is good. I also jam the Alexa's in the morning and at lunch with an ambient clockit. No complaints from post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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