Wandering Ear Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 I was on a documentary shoot last week about The Big Climb, which is a fundraiser for LLS where around 6000 people climb 1130 steps up the Columbia Tower in Seattle. Fun shoot. Had a wireless hop going to camera on block 21 Lectro, and a block 21 IFB running in my bag. No problems all day long, and my block 21 and 24 talent radios were clean. My crew then went up to the 73rd floor to film the climbers exiting the stairway, and I noticed the RF on my talent radios going crazy, so I did a scan and it looked like this: Good thing I didn't need my talent mics up there! I'm not sure how the camera hop dealt with it, but I was recording on my Nomad in case, so it shouldn't be a problem. But damn, that's a bad RF environment. No real question here, just thought I'd share that scan with all you other geeks out there. :} -K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Reyes Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Blk 21 hop tx, and blk 21 IFB tx are probably to close to your blk 21 talent rx. Bad idea trying to use same blocks for cam hops and talent in the bag. Tx are to close to your rx, the will cause interfirence on your talent rx. Try scanning talent rx with all your 21 txs off. Big difference I bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 " probably to close " + " No problems all day long, " + " 73rd floor to film the climbers exiting the stairway, and I noticed the RF on my talent radios going crazy, " = not too close, but " damn, that's a bad RF environment. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek H Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 I'm guessing there's a big antenna tower on top of that building. It's the same story on the observatory deck of the John Hancock building here in Chicago... Coordinate your wireless till you're blue in the face, you'll still have a wall of interference when you're that close to a big TV antenna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted March 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 I'm guessing there's a big antenna tower on top of that building. It's the same story on the observatory deck of the John Hancock building here in Chicago... Coordinate your wireless till you're blue in the face, you'll still have a wall of interference when you're that close to a big TV antenna. That's what I figured was going on, it's the tallest building in Seatle. It was only an issue on the 73rd floor, shooting on the 40th and in the lobby were fine. I was just glad I didn't need to rely on my wireless up there. Pulsar, I agree having tx's and rx's in a bag on the same block can be a big issue, even when splitting the freq. to either end of the block, but that's not what was going on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Reyes Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Just suggesting.... I'm going off of my personal experience and many others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Reyes Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Breakaway on standby? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted March 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Breakaway on standby? Just hit record on the nomad, and delivered files at the end of the day letting production know that there may be issues with the in camera audio from that floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Reyes Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Thumbs up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted March 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 One more thing (out of a huge list of things) I love about the nomad, even when using it as a mixer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Hey Kelsey, That's a fun building, huh? On a windy day, you can feel it swaying back and forth slightly. I'm not afraid of heights, but I have to admit it felt a bit strange being up there, moving around like that. Incidentally, Block 21 used to be pretty good in Seattle, but like many locales these days, it's getting harder to find open freq's there. I'm curious if you had an opportunity to scan without your IFB and/or Hops tx's on? ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason A Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 Have to agree with Pulsar on this one Kelsey. I happen to run into a similar problem the other day. My dp showed up with a block 19 hop he wanted to use. I have a block 470 SR that just couldn't hang on any channel when the blk 19 txs were fired up. My range went down to about 8 feet. I was in the mountains and the 470 scan was literally totally clean without the 19s on. You might have been getting a little lucky, or just close enough to have the earlier success. Blk 21 hop tx, and blk 21 IFB tx are probably to close to your blk 21 talent rx. Bad idea trying to use same blocks for cam hops and talent in the bag. Tx are to close to your rx, the will cause interfirence on your talent rx. Try scanning talent rx with all your 21 txs off. Big difference I bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted March 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 Tom, your right, it's a fun tower. Always a bit odd to feel the building sway in the wind, but I love being up high, and the view of the city is rare. I think the only time I've seen it better was being on the roof of the 2 union square, it's about the same height, but you're on the roof, instead of inside, so you can see a lot more at once. Jason, are you saying you couldn't use your block 470 at all with a block 19 hop running? Shitty. I wasn't using my talent radios much that day, mostly all booming as we were grabbing people before and after they climbed the stairs for quick sound bites. The only time I used my talent mics was when we needed to interview the guy wearing the Alaska Airlines Plane costume. No way for me to get a boom close so I handed him a lav through the fan hole, which was used to keep the suit inflated. What Pulsar said is true, but what I posted in the photo above was limited to floor 73. My scans that morning, and rf levels throughout the day were normal until I went up to 73, and returned to normal after leaving floor 73. I am suspecting transmitters on the roof of the building, although that is still a guess. I'd love to go back on a day where I have time and do some scans with nothing running just to see what's up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason A Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 Yeah, 470 was killed from top to bottom by the block 19 txs. Some of the other mixers on the show were commenting on how they couldn't get away with hops on the next block even with their 411's. So your saying you got clean scans on your 21 talent rx with 2 21 hop trx and 21 ifb all in the same bag? Just sounds too crowded to me. Tom, your right, it's a fun tower. Always a bit odd to feel the building sway in the wind, but I love being up high, and the view of the city is rare. I think the only time I've seen it better was being on the roof of the 2 union square, it's about the same height, but you're on the roof, instead of inside, so you can see a lot more at once. Jason, are you saying you couldn't use your block 470 at all with a block 19 hop running? Shitty. I wasn't using my talent radios much that day, mostly all booming as we were grabbing people before and after they climbed the stairs for quick sound bites. The only time I used my talent mics was when we needed to interview the guy wearing the Alaska Airlines Plane costume. No way for me to get a boom close so I handed him a lav through the fan hole, which was used to keep the suit inflated. What Pulsar said is true, but what I posted in the photo above was limited to floor 73. My scans that morning, and rf levels throughout the day were normal until I went up to 73, and returned to normal after leaving floor 73. I am suspecting transmitters on the roof of the building, although that is still a guess. I'd love to go back on a day where I have time and do some scans with nothing running just to see what's up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted April 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 Yeah, 470 was killed from top to bottom by the block 19 txs. Some of the other mixers on the show were commenting on how they couldn't get away with hops on the next block even with their 411's. So your saying you got clean scans on your 21 talent rx with 2 21 hop trx and 21 ifb all in the same bag? Just sounds too crowded to me. Oh no, I wouldn't call them clean, I am running a nomad too. :-D But I've never seen a scan like that. I had block 24 talent radios also. I just own more block 21 stuff. I was averaging 1 or 2 pixels on my block 21 talent rx, and as soon as I got to the 73rd floor that shot up to 6 pixels. That's when I rescanned and took that photo because I was surprised by the massive jump in RF. All that said, knowing the chances for interference I have successfully run 2 block 21 rxs and a block 21 ifb TX in the bag for over a year with no problems yet. I always have another block available in case. I have my receivers on the left (411s) and my ifb TX (lma) on the right, or sometimes on my harness. I know it's not recommended, but I've been able to do it successfully and that is getting me by until I can afford to sell my Lectro ifb and buy zaxcoms. K http://wanderingear.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 Blocks 470 and 19 overlap a bit so it's not surprising that there would be a problem using them together, esp with a TX in a bag. There is so much RF on a tall building being used as a platform for all sorts of transmissions that I would be worried about RF in mics, cables, camera etc, let alone our puny wirelesses. Up there even the 100th harmonic of their main frequencies will be massively stronger than your TXs. phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 I hate it when that happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Reyes Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 I get rfi hermonics from my blk 24 tx (um400a) cam hop on blk 26 rx (UCR411a) talent in my bag every so often, I mainly see it on my older 411a's but It's easily avoidable, so easily, if you follow the lectorsonics pre-coordinated frequency tables. But buildings that are antennas too.... No bueno for us... This is a sign I ran into on a building next to the empire state building. https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/163172_545927161140_70900576_31891109_7551589_n.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Yeah, 470 was killed from top to bottom by the block 19 txs. Some of the other mixers on the show were commenting on how they couldn't get away with hops on the next block even with their 411's. I can generally run Block 19 for talent and Block 21 for camera hop with no problem. Haven't tried 470, but given that 470 is 470.100-495.600, and Block 19 is 486.400-511.900, there is definitely a good chunk of overlap there. If you kept them separated at the extreme ends, and then checked the intermod, I bet it could work (pending on the local RFI). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted April 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 I get rfi hermonics from my blk 24 tx (um400a) cam hop on blk 26 rx (UCR411a) talent in my bag every so often, I mainly see it on my older 411a's but It's easily avoidable, so easily, if you follow the lectorsonics pre-coordinated frequency tables. But buildings that are antennas too.... No bueno for us... This is a sign I ran into on a building next to the empire state building. https://fbcdn-sphoto...9_7551589_n.jpg At least they warn you first. Although, I can't be surprised going to the top of any tower and seeing this kind of rf, many office buildings have rf antennas on them, it's a convenient way to get them above the city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted April 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 I can generally run Block 19 for talent and Block 21 for camera hop with no problem. Haven't tried 470, but given that 470 is 470.100-495.600, and Block 19 is 486.400-511.900, there is definitely a good chunk of overlap there. If you kept them separated at the extreme ends, and then checked the intermod, I bet it could work (pending on the local RFI). I have to say, FreqFinder has helped me a ton getting my tx's and rx's to work well in the bag. Thanks NewEndian! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason A Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 I was pretty spread out with the spacing and it still was barely serviceable. It doesn't surprise me that you have success with 19 & 21. My hop is on 20 and I do get some rf on my 470 talent rx, but not much. I think SRa (which I use) are more susceptible to this problem in general though. I can generally run Block 19 for talent and Block 21 for camera hop with no problem. Haven't tried 470, but given that 470 is 470.100-495.600, and Block 19 is 486.400-511.900, there is definitely a good chunk of overlap there. If you kept them separated at the extreme ends, and then checked the intermod, I bet it could work (pending on the local RFI). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Ruck Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Always keep in mind that your low power wireless mics are competing with other much higher power transmitters. Besides the obvious 100 kW UHF TV transmitters there are now high power transmitters in the 700 MHz band. So what works on the ground and in a shielded enviornment will not work the same way once you are high up in the air. I don't know Seattle and can't exactly explain what you got but completely understand why you had problems up high. In many areas Block 470 is NOT available for wireless microphones because channels are assigned to Land Mobile, including Public Safety. Since those transmitters are not always on you may find intermittent interference in that block. Also, should the local law enforcement track you down you won't like what they could do to you! (A/k/a "The grey bar hotel") It is very convenient to run wireless but you are juggling very sharp knives! I am very well known in the broadcast world with my statement "Bring lots of mic cable". Bill Ruck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason A Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 I was not aware of the potential legal conflict with 470.1- 495.6. Wasn't mentioned by lectro when they did a scan of the area for me either. I'll have to do some more research. Always keep in mind that your low power wireless mics are competing with other much higher power transmitters. Besides the obvious 100 kW UHF TV transmitters there are now high power transmitters in the 700 MHz band. So what works on the ground and in a shielded enviornment will not work the same way once you are high up in the air. I don't know Seattle and can't exactly explain what you got but completely understand why you had problems up high. In many areas Block 470 is NOT available for wireless microphones because channels are assigned to Land Mobile, including Public Safety. Since those transmitters are not always on you may find intermittent interference in that block. Also, should the local law enforcement track you down you won't like what they could do to you! (A/k/a "The grey bar hotel") It is very convenient to run wireless but you are juggling very sharp knives! I am very well known in the broadcast world with my statement "Bring lots of mic cable". Bill Ruck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feeley Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 Bill Ruck Cool! Great to have you here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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