Richard Nault Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 I put in a request on a previous thread for a 332D for 'lighter' days. Guess they didn't get that memo?! R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 One thing I've noticed on JWS (especially, recently) is that there is no lack of knee-jerk reactions. Sound Devices is firmly established in our industry and that isn't going to change overnight. Yes, Zaxcom came out with a gamechanger in the Nomad. But, I agree with Tom, the development cycle on products is longer than most people here would realize. All of Sound Devices current audio products are still viable and work extremely well for their intended purposes. But, with the excitement (and even controversy) that some of the recent innovative products have precipitated, there seems to be a voracious appetite for more stimulation, more adrenaline-producing devices -- another "fix." I would remind everyone that most of what we do is about our abilities rather than our gear. And I would also remind everyone that the best companies are those that meet our needs well, after the sale as well as before. In the support department, Sound Devices holds an enviable position near the top of the list. I just think that in a knee-jerk furor, Sound Devices is being a bit unfairly chastised. This is coming from someone who likes his new toys as well as anyone, and who owns, and appreciates, products from both of the above-mentioned companies (as well as many, many others). ...Back to our regularly scheduled salivating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 +1 for John B's observations and comments. Many of the knee-jerk reactions and expressions of disappointment with Sound Devices are hasty and foolish. I think it is primarily the group of people who love Sound Devices, don't care so much for Zaxcom, and now love Sound Devices a little less because they didn't come out with a Sound Devices Nomad. Two different companies, both outstanding, innovative, neither of them going away or standing still. We should all be thankful that we are served so well by both Sound Devices and Zaxcom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dre Rivera Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 I too don't see why they are making all these video products and leaving the audio products behind. I was waiting and anticipating sound devices new "Sound device" for this years NAB show. Not another video product. They still could do way more with audio products like zaxcom is doing. why not continue and work on that. Im sure the majority of there users are still sound mixers. Not video, Dit, vtr or any video related people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 +1 to both Jeff and John. If you think about it, the PIX260 isn't not innovative. It's probably a DITs dream, and Sound Devices is enabling a new workflow, in a way. So it is innovative and new. Not just for us, right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 All I wanted to know is who the intended user of the PIX260 is, because I don't understand its utility. I understand very well what the "little Pixies" get used for, and have been on lots of shoots with them. This new box is not for that same purpose, it doesn't seem like. The SD folks are very smart so I'm sure they had a market in mind for it. Yes, I wish they had some new audio stuff to show us, but the Pixies are doing very well for them vs. AJA et al. phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelo Waldron Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Pix260 needs 444 color space. Check out the BlackMagic 2.5k camera for $2995 I might add I'm somewhat disappointed, as I've been looking for a 3x2 mixer that records, as a lightweight kit, and have hoped that Fostex would have a SDHC card slot in their FM3 and FM4 mixer. No.. ok....but now Fostex does have this available in their new DC-R302 mixer/recorder. Somewhat disappointed that SD would chose NAB to roll out a video device somewhat like a HDCam... when it should be a HDCamSR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 ...also the market is moving (not moved yet) towards 4K capture, with the Canon C500 similar products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimPitot Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Sorry but anybody who is in the market for a new multi-track machine will now be buying a Nomad. Sound Devices kit is obviously still great (very happy 552/788T owner here) but it can't compete with the options and price point of the nomad. Not knee-jerk. Fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 There are already companies offering video recorder products from Sound Devices. You want to get in video market? Ok. And present new hardware for video recording. Ok. Also the camera companies announce the new cameras with 4K. Where is your hardware to support 4K? Let's talk about video. Because believe Sound Devices is kidding me. (not only me). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justanross Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Love my 552, love my Fusion. Both SD and Zaxcom are great companies and will continue to be. I haven't been disappointed in either yet. And remember there's always next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldmixer Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 A series I worked on recently used pix 240's in vehicle. Three units each tied to a camera. Two dashboard and one seat back. I was happy to jam them one by one with a 744 and send audio from a 302 setup dropped in the backseat. Monitored from follow vehicle for issues. Synch stayed spot on . Post was real happy with synch, video quality and audio quality. Nice little box. Easy setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Steigerwald Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 All I wanted to know is who the intended user of the PIX260 is My impression was that they have the video assist market at least partially in mind. Hell, if they were available now, I'd buy one and throw my Metacorder in the trash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimPitot Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Are they not meant to compete with the nano flash etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 For all you that seem so let down in Sound Devices, what viable innovative and new ideas do you have for them? What is their current line missing that you need so bad? What's the dealmaker, game changer, competition killer in a box that would make you so great that you would win all those shiny gold stars from production and your peers. Would you prefer them to come out with a new product every year to improve upon and replace last years model? Frankly, i'd be a bit disappointed if they did. I would take that to mean a product that wasn't properly beta tested and thought out. Beta tested? Who needs that? Crank out any old box, make a bunch of promises you cant deliver and burn your customer base. Perhaps some of you who have been in the game longer can tell us how many overhauls the Nagra had since its inception(over how many years before non linear). I bought Lectrosonics SMA transmitters and 411a receivers in 2004. 8 years later, they are still being used and stand up to the current product line(as you know, the 411a is still the current model). Metric Halo put out the 2882 in 2001 that is totally upgradeable to be current with todays model and technology. These are just 2 examples of many well planned out products. If sound devices put out a recorder every year or every other year, I'd quite honestly be upset that my $XXX investment is now valued at $X. I could understand being let down that there's no new toy, but bagging on a company that's taken care of many of us for so long is obnoxious and immature. Maybe next year we can all flame Zaxcom if they don't come out with Nomad v2.0. Let's flame them now because they don't offer a 5 channel version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justanross Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 For all you that seem so let down in Sound Devices, what viable innovative and new ideas do you have for them? What is their current line missing that you need so bad? What's the dealmaker, game changer, competition killer in a box that would make you so great that you would win all those shiny gold stars from production and your peers. Would you prefer them to come out with a new product every year to improve upon and replace last years model? Frankly, i'd be a bit disappointed if they did. I would take that to mean a product that wasn't properly beta tested and thought out. Beta tested? Who needs that? Crank out any old box, make a bunch of promises you cant deliver and burn your customer base. Perhaps some of you who have been in the game longer can tell us how many overhauls the Nagra had since its inception(over how many years before non linear). I bought Lectrosonics SMA transmitters and 411a receivers in 2004. 8 years later, they are still being used and stand up to the current product line(as you know, the 411a is still the current model). Metric Halo put out the 2882 in 2001 that is totally upgradeable to be current with todays model and technology. These are just 2 examples of many well planned out products. If sound devices put out a recorder every year or every other year, I'd quite honestly be upset that my $XXX investment is now valued at $X. I could understand being let down that there's no new toy, but bagging on a company that's taken care of many of us for so long is obnoxious and immature. Maybe next year we can all flame Zaxcom if they don't come out with Nomad v2.0. Let's flame them now because they don't offer a 5 channel version. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toy Robot Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 I think many here assume that because SD hasn't released a new product at NAB, that we sound mixers are off of their list-of-people-to-please. I don't believe this to be so. I don't know the numbers behind the market share of companies like Zaxcom and SD, Sonosax, etc., but I do know that no company that reaches the level of industry acceptance that SD has achieved is going to blindly throw away the building blocks with which they built their company. Am I disappointed there isn't a killer new product? Yes, but only in the, I-like-new-toys and I-love-competition kind of way. After all, if I want the Nomad, all I have to do is purchase one and put my money where my mouth is. I think SD has the ability and the capital (possibly from an injection of PIX purchases...) to sit back and watch. Something is brewing right now. I don't know what it is, but I know that products aren't launched overnight. Something is on the drawing board, and they are just being tight-lipped like Apple does with their products IMO. I would stress that the competition from Zaxcom is good, and that technologically, Zaxcom has the upper hand at the moment, but that's GOOD because it forces SD to innovate or go the way of the dodo. And for those who argue that the PIX-type line of products are an attempt to alter our workflow, I will say this: manufacturers do that by increasing the technological capability of the machines they design all the time. Sometimes with direct intent, and sometimes just because they can, and it's the next best thing to be created. Think of the amount of work the average employee in an office did in 1940 vs. today with their laptop and BlackBerry and home emails at all hours of the night. Think of when movies were made with a boom mic, vs. ENG mixers now running and gunning with 8 or more channels, and think of the fact that many of us are using technology right now to keep up with technology, just by interacting on this forum. There are many such examples of technology making our workflow difficult or 'harder', but at some point, the answer will be: You have to hire another person and pay me $XXXX more per day for this capability. It doesn't matter that you want and/or have the ability to run 32 channels into anything. I cannot do this with the crew specified and the amount of time and money given to me, etc. We just have to embrace the change and buy what suits our needs. It's a fantastic question of who the PIX-line of products are for, I am not disagreeing. But I'm also saying that it doesn't matter that much. When the day comes that someone says, "I expect this of you for our workflow into my PIXblah..." Then we revert to the paragraph above this one. My $0.02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pindrop Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 Head up display for metering / menus / matrix and video, remote control, very lightweight,very low power consumption, speech recognition, full input / output / headphone / playback matrix, flying input / breakout boxes, pick up and use like a shoulder mount camera, no more strapping oneself in to monster rigs....... dream on....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted April 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 John B, I see what you are saying, but all I was hoping for was a 302 or a mixpre with backup recording and TC reader. It has nothing to do with innovation. The technology is out. if they can put a 552 in a 442 size enclosure they must be able to do the same with 302 and mixpre. I am only speculating but IMHO they just don't want competition between their products. If you want to have recording and tc reader you have to buy the more expensive 552. At this point I am willing to pay 552 price for a 302 mixer with recording and tc reader for those gigs where only need 1-3 channels and can use a smaller/lighter bag. And I bet I am not the only one. Not to mention in the world of DSLR I don't want to carry a heavy recorder when I am doing single person interviews. I just wish Sound Devices were listening to the users the same way Zaxcom do. I am not trying to bash SD. Their products are rock solid "exception the 788t in the heat" and I love and respect them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dre Rivera Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 +1 -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted April 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 For all you that seem so let down in Sound Devices, what viable innovative and new ideas do you have for them? What is their current line missing that you need so bad? What's the dealmaker, game changer, competition killer in a box that would make you so great that you would win all those shiny gold stars from production and your peers. 302 or mixpre with recording and TC reader like 552 for lighter bags and less money spend on doctors in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Wynne Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 One thing I've noticed on JWS (especially, recently) is that there is no lack of knee-jerk reactions. Sound Devices is firmly established in our industry and that isn't going to change overnight. Yes, Zaxcom came out with a gamechanger in the Nomad. But, I agree with Tom, the development cycle on products is longer than most people here would realize. All of Sound Devices current audio products are still viable and work extremely well for their intended purposes. But, with the excitement (and even controversy) that some of the recent innovative products have precipitated, there seems to be a voracious appetite for more stimulation, more adrenaline-producing devices -- another "fix." I would remind everyone that most of what we do is about our abilities rather than our gear. And I would also remind everyone that the best companies are those that meet our needs well, after the sale as well as before. In the support department, Sound Devices holds an enviable position near the top of the list. I just think that in a knee-jerk furor, Sound Devices is being a bit unfairly chastised. This is coming from someone who likes his new toys as well as anyone, and who owns, and appreciates, products from both of the above-mentioned companies (as well as many, many others). ...Back to our regularly scheduled salivating. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lightstone, CAS Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Alex, I don't feel threatened by new technology, but I did pause when you wrote this, "Think of when movies were made with a boom mic, vs. ENG mixers now running and gunning with 8 or more channels." Just a FYI; movies and television shows are still made with boom microphones and not necessarily "running and gunning" either. We use every thing at our disposal, boom microphones (preferred), wireless, plant mics - whatever gets the best quality, rather than the latest newest thing released in mostly beta form at NAB. The quality is delivered by one's skills and made possible by the toys at our disposal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toy Robot Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Alex, I don't feel threatened by new technology, but I did pause when you wrote this, "Think of when movies were made with a boom mic, vs. ENG mixers now running and gunning with 8 or more channels." Just a FYI; movies and television shows are still made with boom microphones and not necessarily "running and gunning" either. We use every thing at our disposal, boom microphones (preferred), wireless, plant mics - whatever gets the best quality, rather than the latest newest thing released in mostly beta form at NAB. The quality is delivered by one's skills and made possible by the toys at our disposal. I agree with you 100%. I just think things change and sometimes people are adverse to that, if for no other reason than that it is something they are not looking forward to, or that the human condition is often to stay within a comfort zone and say 'no' at first. But time will tell what direction technology takes us all. I also didn't mean movies aren't made with boom mics, please don't misunderstand. What I meant was that in 1940, the technology didn't even exist for today's run-and-gun style setups/ENG work. The technology today in my tiny sound bag (compared to the stuff many of you own) is greater than the technology movies were made on for years and years. And not just greater; better by leaps and bounds. That's what I meant. Things change, technology changes; we adapt, we move on. And you're spot on about getting the job done. It's exactly why I think people should not be threatened with technology prices falling as they have over the years. Anyone can buy a Nomad or Deva or SD 788t if they have the money, but what that individual do with them is an entirely different story. It takes real skill to be good at this. No one can learn it all from a forum IMO. I also love throwback technology as well. I have a Pioneer RT-909 1/4" reel to reel that I use regularly, and it not only gets the job done, but I love it! And we all know that microphone technology has lasted, what, 60-70 years now? Good studio condensers (old Neumann's etc.) are still going for insane money. That is to say that we don't necessarily need the new toys, but they sure are FUN! It's why I hope to work with some very talented mixers soon and learn from them and communicate in person about things like this. Because it IS all about what you know. It's interesting and fun to me. What a sad sot I'd be if I hated this work and still spent this much time on JWSound! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted April 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Well the good news is that zaxcom zfr300 will kind of do what I want with the mixpre. There goes $1,195 going in the zaxcom pockets instead of Sound Devices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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