Jump to content

Any news from the sound devices other then new Pix?


RadoStefanov

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 157
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I might just get a zaxcom stereo hop Sta aes and use it for backup recording on mixpreD.I can feed it tc from qrx100 on camera.I would have done that long time ago if it was not for the RF garbage out of sta150

Cool. Not really handy for a 302 as a back up recorder. I guess the ZFR100 is better for that.
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I might just get a zaxcom stereo hop Sta aes and use it for backup recording on mixpreD.I can feed it tc from qrx100 on camera.I would have done that long time ago if it was not for the RF garbage out of sta150Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

That's what I've been doing on my gigs. Works great. Just got my STA042 as well.

I wish the STA mod did something for me as far as RF spray. :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, let me help with your struggles. You stated, and claimed as a fact, that, "Sorry but anybody who is in the market for a new multi-track machine will now be buying a Nomad."

Therefore even a single 788T sales would prove this statement wrong.

So, yes, before long we will know who's right -- at the moment a 788T, or any other multi-track machine, sells.

I agree with your oversensitive statement. However, my point was actually that your declaration doesn't dictate anyone else's buying habits unless they're sheep. I didn't buy a Nomad because someone arbitrarily declared it the winner. I bought it because it was right for my needs. On the cart, a Deva fits my needs better. Not everyone's needs are the same.

And, +1 on the "meter licker" comment.

Yeah I guess they'll sell a few more 788's. So I guess you will be proved right. Your pedantic alanysis of my posts has paid off big time!

Congrats.

I still reckon the nomad will outsell 788 in a big way. Not that I really care, just my opinion. As I said before - very happy with my SD kit.

Hope the nomad is working out well for you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Call me late to this party, but I feel that since I missed NAB this year, I missed out on an opportunity to both play with the Nomad (B/c I couldn't get NEAR the booth last year) and also to ask SD some questions about their line that have been bothering me.

Maybe someone here can answer these questions for me, as they relate to your respective gear selections:

What is the actual target use for the 744? Yea, I know it is a 4 track recorder... But without the ability to MIX those 4 tracks (for a total of 6 like the 788 does with the CL8 mixer) what you end up with is ONLY a 2-track ISO and a 2 track mix, and you still need something like a 442... Which puts you within spitting distance of the 788 price point. If it had 4 mic pres on it (with pots) at least you could theoretically use it to make a 4 track iso recording... Then if SD could add the 2 mix tracks in software as an LR mix option like the 788... Now it is a device that is better than the 702T, but not as expensive as the 788.

As it is right now... I just can't see where it offers me any functionality that would replace my existing 702T. For those of you that have this, how do you use it?

That brings me to the other option - The Nomad. I'm not adverse to buying-and-upgrading-the-software if that is more affordable a pathway... But how does the UI compare to the SD line? Looking at the front panel controls of a Nomad, I can't really figure out the menu system for quick changes of functions. Mind you, I have never actually touched one, so that is a problem, I know. But looking at the SD stuff, I rarely need to consider the manual while working with them. They really are very intuitive in the layout. On the Zax gear however, how are the files laid out? Can they be Scene123_T123.wav like on the SD stuff? Is there a way / need to get only wav files out of them without needing an outside program at the end of the day? Speed of delivery is extremely important, as I'm sure we all well know... And I may be asking dumb questions about the Zax gear simply b/c I haven't yet been able to play with any of them.

Thanks for indulging my curiosity. For those out at NAB this week... I hope the party was a great one!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's a lot of questions.

For me, I use my 744 as iso recording for my 552. Before I had the 552, I used a 302 in front of the 744T to either make a mix track and 3 isos (with splits) or as the 2 'missing' preamps for the 744T. On jobs that I didn't need the recorder, I could shed the weight. I'd love to see it be given a mix controller and the 2 additional tracks, but that won't happen. I also use it as an effects recorder, as it does 4 tracks of up to 192Khz no problem.

On to the other questions re: Nomad.

1. The UI is different. It's not worse or better, just different. Like any product you haven't used before it can seem confusing or poorly laid out on first glance, but as you learn to use it, it gets easier/faster etc. From a personal standpoint, I think the 2 things that SD do better than Zaxcom are UI and physical construction. I find SD products more intuitive, but I've used them more than Zaxcom. Others will have opposing views and that's fine.

In terms of the Nomad, most of your high-use functions (trim, fader, pan etc) are changed by combinations of buttons on the front panel, no menus necessary. Other functions, like phantom, low-cuts, effects etc are in front panel menus, which are still pretty easy to access - just press the Setup button then the button above the input you want to change.

Very low use functions (set and forget) like Zaxnet, bussing, rec enables etc are located in further menus, and should really only need to be adjusted at the beginning of each project, or even the first time you turn the machine on.

2. Zaxcom has their own file naming system. Basically, the file gets stamped with the folder name (or number) and advances sequentially from there. So the files in folder 01A will be 01A_001.wav, 01A_002.wav etc. Scene and Take information is only kept in the metadata. If need be, a software program like WaveAgent can re-name all your files based on Scene/Take Metadata. This is done to ensure no duplicated file names, amongst other things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re the 744 question, it depends on how you want to work and what's demanded of you. The 744 will mix it's inputs 3 different ways--via combining them to record tracks, combining them to outputs or combining them re: monitoring. The 744 has 2 output buses (#1 analog/digital, #2 digital only) that can have different mixes of the inputs. ( I have a small DAC that I use with the #2 output.) Re: isos: received wisdom is that iso tracks have to be set and forget. But remember that all tracks recorded in the field will be re-levelled in post anyhow, so having your inputs/tracks at mix levels on their isos isn't a problem most of the time, at least for me. Most editors I work with are fine with getting a 4 track poly (instead of 2), so I often work in that mode giving them "post-fade" separate tracks of a mix that might be going to a camera as a 2 channel "split mix" or mono ref track. I understand that in many quarters the idea of a post-fade iso is heretical, but we're talking about relatively simple shoots here, and only 4 tracks total. I rarely end up having a track that I need to record but not include in the mix I'm making for camera, and thus don't seem to need the ability to kill an input completely but still have it recorded at nominal level somewhere. So I guess that makes me a target user for the 744, at least for now.

phil p

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is the actual target use for the 744?

I've done plenty of jobs where I am handed a kit with a 442+744T. In a bag setup for run+gun work I have used a mixer to mix to the camera, like we have always done, and then record iso tracks on the 744T in case post needs them. Usually they see the 744T recordings as a "only if we need them", and hope to use our audio from the camera. That's why the 744T make a big splash in run+gun reality. You could add the 744T to the standard run+gun kit, and get that added ability to never miss some great lines by somebody off camera, or if the camera isn't speeding (assuming you are mixing for camera). Just hit record and let it go, and just worry about mixing when the camera is up. Tons of people use 744T in other ways, but that is how (I think) most of them were sold. The jobs I speak of are ones where post probably requested the 744, but I don't know because production decided on one (or a recorder) before hiring me. Realistically the fact that the 744T doesn't allow a recording of mix tracks may also have been a hardware limitation at the time (as to not compromise size/weight/cost/whatever).

As I see it, the 788T is more of a multi-track recorder-mixer than a modular upgrade to your possibly existing 442/552/302 bag mixer kit. It still has the ability to work in the "mix for camera, iso tracks if we need them" system. I'm only talking about bag use... cart use is a whole different beast, especially when people have a 3rd party mixer in front.

I think Zaxcom comes from a different angle if you see the Nomad as the ENG ancestor to the Deva. They have sort of collided with the Nomad vs the 788T making two products that have a lot of people making an A vs B list of the two. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

" Who is the Pix260 for? "

lots, and lots of folks, not us...

and they are selling verrrrry well to all of "those folks"

and while there are almost 100 from jwsoundgroup.net at NAB, there are thousands of "those folks" there, that need to be introduced to SD and their products for them...

" Guess they didn't get that memo?! "

maybe they did, but they aren't running their business just for you...

" And remember there's always next year "

are you suggesting that nothing new (or upgraded) cannot be introduced to the market until next April ??

if something were introduced in, say, September, would it be late for NAB or Early for NAB ?? or not allowed at all..??

meanwhile, introducing new or upgraded products "for us" does not require an NAB.

" going in the zaxcom pockets instead of Sound Devices. "

(someone who already bought a Nomad, and dumped a perfectly excellent 552)

" Sound Devices is firmly established in our industry " + " +1 for John B's observations and comments. Many of the knee-jerk reactions and expressions of disappointment with Sound Devices are hasty and foolish "

JW and JB understand...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Digging through my memory, Sound Devices doesn't only announce new products at NAB. IIRC, they've made announcements in conjunction with IBC in September and at other dates (maybe AES?). Feel free to confirm by digging here:

http://www.sounddevices.com/news/

So maybe we'll see something new from SD (and for that matter from Zaxcom, Lectrosonics, and all the rest) later this year. And we can't expect Nomad & PIX level announcements every year.

Jim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am currently working on a show you can't do with a Nomad.

Vincent

Oooooh why? I feel the same way I dont want the nomad cuz their stuff is not as tuff as SD stuff and I worry. I want to know what situation you dont think the nomad could handle. I dont think it could handle the Show I am about to start.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just thinking out loud here...

On my current show, camera is using 2 pix 240's to record video from 2 Sony F-3's. I jam my 788t with them for our workflow.

I also happen to have 2 HD monitors on my cart, being fed HD-SDI.

DP a few days ago joked that he would like to put the Pix 240's on my cart to save the weight off the cameras (almost the whole show is shot on the shoulder.) since I was getting the same video feed to my monitors as he was sending to his Pix recorders. And, since the Pix 240's are already remote triggered through the SDI signal to start and stop record, it would be basically the same set-up.

Looking at this pix 260, I kind of wonder if Sound Devices hasn't somehow been monitoring our conversation.

Being able to record my 8 audio tracks (straight out of my mixer) right onto that pix 260 would certainly save a step in post (syncing my 788 tracks with video) "Speed" could either be called by me, or the camera operator (when he hits record on the camera)

If I got the rental charge for the pix 260, this might end up being a sweet investment. At the end of the day I would just be handing off a hard drive like I do now, except now it also contains the video.

Also, we don't have a DIT on our set, but I don't think this would really change there roll, as the monitor on the Pix 240's isnt large enough, or of high enough resolution for making the critical calls about image quality. They would still have there own feed, to larger higher resolution monitors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not that old, but I know about the history of broadcast video. What Sound Devices is doing isn't necessarily a new idea. In the early 80's Nagra made a portable 1" C format recorder called the VPR-5 in a partnership with Ampex. Holy crap was it beautiful. Aaton, a camera company maybe cared about audio in the early days more then any other camera company. Instead of wrapping the camera in a blimp they reworked the actual mechanism to be inherently quiet, and then decades later they released a sound recorder themselves! I don't think sound devices will have any trouble going forward. Sound and picture has been converging and diverging for years, diversity and development is never a bad thing imo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not that old, but I know about the history of broadcast video. What Sound Devices is doing isn't necessarily a new idea. In the early 80's Nagra made a portable 1" C format recorder called the VPR-5 in a partnership with Ampex. Holy crap was it beautiful.

It was, but... it was also very unreliable, extremely expensive, and nobody bought it, certainly not at the network. Everybody went Betacam (or Beta SP) instead, because the cost/size/weight balance was better, and the VPR-5 had some weird design issues (like its unusable rewind mode). My memory is that a fully-equipped Ikegami with an integrated recorder was maybe $50K (plus lens), and the Ampex/Nagra VPR-5 alone was like $25K and weighed a ton. Missteps like this eventually put Ampex out of business.

Sometimes, it's about the right product for the right market -- making what people want to buy. My observation is that the PIX is doing very well, and the DPs and producers get that it immediately gives them material they can start editing with minutes after the scene ends, which is very useful for a lot of shoots.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...