Is this good practice?

[Zack]

Production company contacts me for 5 day shoot, i accept and book dates for them, they respond with "great to have you on board". About 5 days pass and no contact from them. 2 days prior to shoot I reach out and find out they've "had a change to their shoot plans" and no longer require my services. Two days later, I find out (in person) them shooting after all with different crew. In the mean while, my schedule was on hold for them..... I guess lesson learned with not having a deposit, or cancelation agreement set up, but am I in the wrong here expressing how f@%!ed up this is?

[Whit Norris]

No you are not wrong Zack. I feel your pain with this production company. A very bad way to do business on their side.

Hey Zack if you said a few more fu&&%& and so on would that help might help or at least make you feel better. I think that may even be appropriate on this thread after how they treated you. What a bunch of $#$$%^ swines!

Cheers,

Whit

[MatthewFreedAudio]

Was your contact with them via email or on the phone? If you have it in writing that they booked you for X number of days at Y rate then I would invoice them.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

[Max Futterman]

Production company contacts me for 5 day shoot, i accept and book dates for them, they respond with "great to have you on board". About 5 days pass and no contact from them. 2 days prior to shoot I reach out and find out they've "had a change to their shoot plans" and no longer require my services. Two days later, I find out (in person) them shooting after all with different crew. In the mean while, my schedule was on hold for them..... I guess lesson learned with not having a deposit, or cancelation agreement set up, but am I in the wrong here expressing how f@%!ed up this is?

I've had that happen to me before and it's total BS, especially since that's five days where if another client (who actually treats you with respect) calls about one of those days, you have to say "sorry I am booked," then find out that you are not book and in that time, good client got someone else. I've been fortunate NOT to have the latter happen to me, but it's a very real risk.

Generally, if I know the client and its a one or two day thing, I'm okay with a handshake deal. New clients who book in advance for large sums of days or cash, I ask about a contract or I throw one together. Freelancer's Union has a pretty good contract generator. https://be.freelancersunion.org/contract-creator/

[RPSharman]

I don't think you'll find anyone who would give you a deposit or a cancellation agreement.

This stuff happens all the time.

My suggestion is that if you book a job, and if you get a call for another job, then follow up with the first job. If you can't get hold of them, use your best instincts to determine if you should switch. And then email the first client to say you were unable to contact them regarding a conflict, so you have accepted the other offer.

If you don't book another job, and get mad if they cancel or replace you, then you are only insuring they won't choose you the next time either.

Those are the ups and downs of freelance work.

[Geoff Tirrell]

I don't think you'll find anyone who would give you a deposit or a cancellation agreement.

This stuff happens all the time.

My suggestion is that if you book a job, and if you get a call for another job, then follow up with the first job. If you can't get hold of them, use your best instincts to determine if you should switch. And then email the first client to say you were unable to contact them regarding a conflict, so you have accepted the other offer.

If you don't book another job, and get mad if they cancel or replace you, then you are only insuring they won't choose you the next time either.

Those are the ups and downs of freelance work.

+ 1

And this is coming from a guy who had this happen on a 10 day world series booking only to replace 8 of the days with some last minute calls to clients. It is pretty much standard for me to tell somebody who calls if I am already booked that I will call them back in one minute after I confirm the other job/ availability etc..

[Zack]

Was your contact with them via email or on the phone? If you have it in writing that they booked you for X number of days at Y rate then I would invoice them.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

Both forms of contact... have things in writing for days and rates yes.

[Zack]

@ Robert and Geoff, I hear you and agree, it's the only thing keeping me from completely blowing up on this company. Just really frustrated, been having a lot of dropped jobs this month and this was no fun to find out today.

@ Whit... hehe thanks!

[RPSharman]

@ Robert and Geoff, I hear you and agree, it's the only thing keeping me from completely blowing up on this company. Just really frustrated, been having a lot of dropped jobs this month and this was no fun to find out today.

@ Whit... hehe thanks!

I hear you! Imagine how I felt with all my gear on pallets at LAX, getting ready to go to Hungary for 3 months on a feature, only to get a panicked phone call, "Don't put it on the plane!!"

The job went away. Financing company pulled the plug. They failed to pay my local guy who scouted for a week. I'm just happy I didn't have to pay for the carnet or local delivery of my gear.

Robert

[Zack]

uuuuhhhggggg... that's balls , sorry to hear that.

[old school]

No job is booked until you're eating your breakfast burrito on the set.

CrewC

[Geoff Tirrell]

No job is booked until you're eating your breakfast burrito on the set.

CrewC

and no 5 or 10 day job is a 5 or 10 day job until you are grabbing the last coke from the craft services cooler on your way out the door.

[Zack]

And no job is a job until you receive payment? lol

[Christopher Mills]

AMEN

[Toy Robot]

...

My suggestion is that if you book a job, and if you get a call for another job, then follow up with the first job. If you can't get hold of them, use your best instincts to determine if you should switch. And then email the first client to say you were unable to contact them regarding a conflict, so you have accepted the other offer.

...

Now here is one of those fantastically useful tidbits of information that gets me wondering why I didn't think of myself. I'll be putting this to use immediately. Thank you.

[Philip Perkins]

I make myself very tiresome to PMs re this subject. If I get a call for a day they've booked (or even held), I call or email them, apologize for being a pest but ask again if they are sure they need me that day. It's a drag but it keeps everyone honest. They know what it means if I've called back 2 or 3 times--they really can't claim they didn't book me, and know that there will be some blowback if they try to hose me. I like doing this about as much as I like hunting down and fixing Comteks, but it's the only way. If they bail and I didn't have anything else going that day, that's how it goes. There ARE some prod. co.s around that will absolutely not firm book you for anything ever, with them you have to decide if they are going to go ahead or bail on your own.

phil p

[John Blankenship]

I'd like to remind others what I remind myself:

Most (I said, "most," not all), production companies are staffed with decent human beings. These are people doing a job just like you and I.

Often the person handling the booking has a lot of challenges to deal with and sometimes much of it comes at them in frantic batches. Situations happen, where, due to miscommunication within the company, more than one person will do a booking and each person doesn't realize the other is crewing for the same shoot day. I had that happen not long ago with a production I was happy to not be on because they seemed so disorganized. I haven't had a chance to talk to the fellow mixer who took the gig to see how it actually went.

Often, the person juggling the schedules is in the throes of (for instance), finding a new venue because someone backed out on them, adjusting call times because a person missed their flight, finding replacement gear due to the airline misdirecting their cases, or adapting a shooting schedule to accomodate an interview subject who just "suddenly" realized they had two appointments at the same time.

I'm just saying, it helps me to remind myself that most of the folks I'm dealing with have a lot on their plates, and they're good people trying hard to do the best they can under whatever conditions they're given.

And just like me, they're not perfect.

Sure, I get antsy if it's late in the afternoon and I don't have the call information for the next day, but I also realize that the person disseminating that information is often caught in the middle and can't pass on what they don't know yet.

I second what Robert said. Also, remember that a follow-up actually helps both parties. The person who booked you could get screwed if you don't show up for whatever reason, so, they're normally happy to have the assurance from your end. I fully agree that part of the responsibility for confirming lies with us.

And, to Zack whose unfortunate incident started this thread -- I agree, that sucks!

[Denielle]

I don't think you'll find anyone who would give you a deposit or a cancellation agreement.

This stuff happens all the time.

My suggestion is that if you book a job, and if you get a call for another job, then follow up with the first job. If you can't get hold of them, use your best instincts to determine if you should switch. And then email the first client to say you were unable to contact them regarding a conflict, so you have accepted the other offer.

If you don't book another job, and get mad if they cancel or replace you, then you are only insuring they won't choose you the next time either.

Those are the ups and downs of freelance work.

+1

[Spencer Moore]

I always thought that the custom was to push for a kill fee if the production cuts you 24 hours or less prior to the shoot. I've had books cut from good clients a couple days before the shoot for legitimate circumstances, and only once was cut because the producer told me through email less then a day before the shoot "the director is going with a different crew." I tried to get my money for that one. However like John said, most people are just trying to do their jobs under difficult conditions just like us.

[studiomprd]

" if you book a job, and if you get a call for another job, then follow up with the first job. "

more specifically:

" If I get a call for a day they've booked (or even held), I call or email them, apologize for being a pest but ask again if they are sure they need me that day. It's a drag but it keeps everyone honest. They know what it means if I've called back 2 or 3 times--they really can't claim they didn't book me, and know that there will be some blowback if they try to hose me. "

and if they reconfirm, and then hose me, I'd invoice them, but you'll probably not get anything... OTOH, you weren't really expecting to hear from then again, for anything, ever ...

and yeah, it is not good practice, but it happens...

[Jay Rose]

My suggestion is that if you book a job, and if you get a call for another job, then follow up with the first job. If you can't get hold of them, use your best instincts to determine if you should switch. And then email the first client to say you were unable to contact them

In the post world, there are "T"s (tentative booking), 'Definite" (you pay for cancellation), and "First Refusal". There are also reasonable "bumps", where you guarantee they can go over a few hours or a day at the same rate depending on the length of the booking... but those don't take effect until the booking is definite.

Most of the producers around here are perfectly willing to specify First Refusal, knowing that if you get another call for the same day, you'll ask them to either commit with cancellation fee or give up the time entirely.

System has worked fine for years. The producers (and post houses) that abuse it don't get called back.

[ccsnd]

When I get booked on a gig I send a quote invoice which states my policies for late cancelations, rates, late payments, and no payments. sometimes production will call and ask me to change some of the terms, but 90% of the time I don't think they even notice it.

[Max Futterman]

When I get booked on a gig I send a quote invoice which states my policies for late cancelations, rates, late payments, and no payments. sometimes production will call and ask me to change some of the terms, but 90% of the time I don't think they even notice it.

I like that policy thesoundguy! I haven't really settled on a system (used contracts for some larger jobs and handshakes for long time clients) but I think I'll start doing that from now on! Thanks for the inadvertant help here!

[Jim Feeley]

When I get booked on a gig I send a quote invoice which states my policies for late cancelations, rates, late payments, and no payments. sometimes production will call and ask me to change some of the terms, but 90% of the time I don't think they even notice it.

Have you ever had to press for your cancellation fee or for late/no-payment compensation? How did you approach those cases?

Thanks, Jim

[Marc Wielage]

I just had a case where a music video shoot cancelled and re-scheduled, all because the artist vetoed the location at the last minute (5PM the day before the shoot).

The producer called back extremely apologetic, said they were going to rebook at a different location 4 days later. Realistically, I could've hit them up for 100% of the original charge, but I thought about it and decided that 50% was a fair compromise -- only because in this case, I wasn't booked, plus the people were genuinely nice. At the end of the rescheduled shoot, they paid in full with no problem (daily fee + 50% cancellation).

If I had turned down a job for the original date, or if they had been jerks... that would've been a different story. (And I know they already were way over budget because of a crane rental and the other crew members.)