ProSound Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 Just curious How many of you have Agents? Has it been helpful to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Milliken Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 I have an Agent. Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Milliken Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 Yes it has been helpful, they do all the deals regarding gear and labour, they also do all the invoicing, it is Tax deductable. When your are on a long job it helps you stay connected to what is coming up etc, I have had my Agent now for 5 years and would not go back to being without. Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 I'd like to resurrect this topic. Perhaps people can chime in if they use an agent and who it is, and also if they truly believe it has helped them get work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 I think Brian Milliken may be the only one. My feeling is that an agent would only be useful/valuable for me if they were actually successful at getting me a job that I would not have been able to get myself. Just telling me about something coming up (and possibly telling his other sound mixer clients as well) doesn't seem to serve me in any meaningful way. As for being able to "negotiate" a better deal, this is not going to happen for sound mixers. Most of us have discovered that if we are able to make a deal "over scale" that is a deal we will be able to negotiate on our own. Regards, Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBurnette Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 One of my professors in film school (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0007020/) said that an agent was a great asset. He said (in more words) that the agent depersonalizes negotiation...Producers don't take it as personally when the agent makes demands or presses hard, because it's their job. The agent can basically serve as the 'bad cop' as needed, and producers are used to dealing with agents. I've worked (very junior level) the flip side. From the production management standpoint, it is often helpful to deal with agents. I've worked on some larger documentary and exhibit projects (yes, film segments for museum exhibits is a lucrative industry) and agents are often faster and easier to deal with, because it's all business. The agent does their thing for a living, so the people they represent don't have to bother with the complex business/booking stuff. I guess a key question is cost, and I have no idea how much, or what percent an agent representing below the line might take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 "He said (in more words) that the agent depersonalizes negotiation...Producers don't take it as personally when the agent makes demands or presses hard, because it's their job. The agent can basically serve as the 'bad cop' as needed, and producers are used to dealing with agents." I agree that this is a fundamental aspect of the value of an agent and I agree that producers are used to dealing with agents --- it is just that they are NOT used to dealing with agents for SOUND people. This can work against us instead of for us --- I can see a producer saying "who does this guy think he is, Brad Pitt... I'm hiring a sound mixer, I don't want to deal with an agent." "I've worked (very junior level) the flip side. From the production management standpoint, it is often helpful to deal with agents." Did you ever deal with an agent for a sound mixer? "I guess a key question is cost, and I have no idea how much, or what percent an agent representing below the line might take." The only agent that I ever dealt with (and ultimately decided not to go with or ANY agent for that matter) was going to take 10% of my wages and 6% of the equipment rental on the job, even if he did nothing to negotiate the rental deal. No thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Networking ='s Working for sound sluts like us IMO. We need to know the game to play the game. Make a deal and live with it if you are that close to the gig as to be up for it. Agents look at us as interchangeable units, not talents. Maybe it works for some, but I have never known anyone in H wood who has used one for an extended period. My 2 centz..... CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 I think a good question is, which you have answered Jeff, do you believe an agent can get you work or make you aware of available work which you wouldn't have be able to get on your own? In terms of negotiation, they probably can't make up the difference on their cut, but if they get one movie for you every couple of years that would have left you otherwise unemployed, then they pay for themselves. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 ...but if they get one movie for you every couple of years that would have left you otherwise unemployed, then they pay for themselves. Robert Agreed. I had little confidence after thinking the whole thing through that the agent would be able to get me even that one movie. One factor which I found most troubling is that this agent was also courting several other sound mixers --- was he going to equally go to bat for each of us or even equally tell us about upcoming work? I know that agents typically have several clients, for example several actors, so they can certainly promote any one of the individuals to a potential employer for whom that individual is a good choice. Sound mixers are viewed much more interchangeably by prospective employers than actors --- when they are "casting" the part of the sound mixer the effort put in by an agent in our behalf is probably fairly inconsequential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BobD Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 The best possible agent for me is me..... As for getting gigs, I'll do that.... No help needed for myself, but maybe helpful for some. Agents do not have the technical knowledge to act on my behalf negotiating gear rates or needs, and I am sure that they can not get a better deal for me than I do.... I personally have no problem there... As for rates, well, that's union and that work has already been done. So... basically you would have someone take a cut out of the gear rate you are worried about getting a good rate for.... For a guy like me, that's just plain... well, you know.. If you are a feature guy, and a good one, your rep should act as your agent... I don't like the 10%... or whatever it is, that would eat me alive... As always, just me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 I think the more experienced and successful mixers here may not benefit from an agent for the clear reasons stated above. What I wonder is if an agent can let me know about work that I wouldn't ordinarily know about. I look through the production reports, etc., but feel that I must be missing opportunities somewhere. I suppose at my budget level, an agent wouldn't be that interested, and at a higher budget level people have their usuals suspects. But I often feel that if I can just get in the room, then I have a real shot at the job. What I need is someone who can help keep my resume out of the trash and in the "maybe" pile. I have a few producers and directors who will always consider me, but I'd like to be introduced to people I don't know. Can an agent do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lightstone, CAS Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Like Jeff, BobD and RVD, I'm not a fan of agents. However I have tried three different agents over my nearly forty year career. Just writing that number of years in the biz scares the hell out of me and makes me wonder how I've survived in this crazy industry all those years. It's always whoring for work, keeping in touch, building relationships and never giving up. Rejection can be a bitch and every one of us has been on top working a nice streak and then losing a show to your best friend and competitor. All three of those agents promised the moon and then got me nothing. One would present me with details on an upcoming show and then ask me who I knew on it. I think that's his job, if I knew someone on it, I'd be calling them. That agent reps a busy successful mixer. Another busy mixer is represented by another agent. Are those agents getting them the jobs, or is it there successful track record that gets the interest? It is their resumes of box office hits, word of mouth and their reputations - definitely not their agents. But every time it gets slow, I toy with the idea then cast it aside and just hustle harder. RL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 But every time it gets slow, I toy with the idea then cast it aside and just hustle harder. RL And this is what I will do. Thanks to you and RVD and JW, etc. Your collective experience once again served as the voice of reason. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 " Most of us have discovered that if we are able to make a deal "over scale" that is a deal we will be able to negotiate on our own. " and those deals are even rarer these days... if an agent gets you 10% over scale, and takes 10%, you break even, assuming the agent also got you 10% more on the package, too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 " Or you move to a smaller market and use your experience to put you higher up on the pecking order in that market. " uh-oh! that food-chain / pyramid thing again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 " and just hustle harder. " I think that is the consensus.. that is the way it has been, that is the way it is, and that is the way it will probably remain. there are a couple others here who get a little verklempt when times get tough, and they find themselves frustrated with the so-called gigs on CL or Mandy. those are not really jobs, and that is not the place to be looking for real gigs, either... it isn't about your cart, or which mixer, recorder, wireless, etc. you have and use, it is about networking, referrals and most of all experience, and it still takes time to get that last one...even as you climb that so called ladder up the alledged pyramid, the fact is, you just move into a different, but still highly competitive arena, thus the opening quote applies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt McGowin Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Most of the jobs that I get are from my friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 " Most of us have discovered that if we are able to make a deal "over scale" that is a deal we will be able to negotiate on our own. " and those deals are even rarer these days... if an agent gets you 10% over scale, and takes 10%, you break even, assuming the agent also got you 10% more on the package, too... Well actually not. If scale for labor is $100 and scale for gear is $100 that's $200 and you get 10%($20) above that it's $220. The agent takes 10% of the $220 which is $22, you end up with $178. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Anderson Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 $198? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 " you end up with $178. " fuzzy math?? definitely get another agent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Slater Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 I agree with the consensus here. Working in the UK mostly on episodic TV series, I fail to see how an agent would improve things for me. The weekly rate that most of us get, falls within a fairly narrow band and even if an agent were to negotiate an improved rate, it is unlikely to cover the 10% that the agent takes. I am also uncomfortable with the idea that an agent gets the same percentage whether the job is one week or 6 months. The work and negotiation involved is just the same, but they make a great deal more in fees from the long job. I don't have a problem with negotiating my deal with producers. It's just another necessary part of my job, but I know folks who prefer not to. Most colleagues I have spoken to who have agents, tell me that they still end up getting most of the work themselves. So why pay for nothing? I agree with Jeff, that I would be concerned that the agent might be pushing more heavily for one of their other sound mixer clients, to my detriment. We are, I agree, more interchangeable than say actors, directors or DPs. In all the years I have been mixing, I would say that 95% of the jobs have come from people I have previously worked with, or from recommendations by previous clients. Very few have come out of the blue, or as a result of me 'cold calling' a production who did not know me or my work. Roger Slater AMPS Malvern UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 " you end up with $178. " fuzzy math?? definitely get another agent! Definitely fuzzy math on my part, $198 is correct not $178. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 The agent thing is part of an area of the biz that I don't have much experience with, but I've always wondered this about it: I know as soundies we are much more interchangeable than say DPs or scenic/propmaster types, but I've always thought that a lot of what gets you hired on a long job is whether or not the "team captains" think you will work out as part of their team for that show. Like, how good a hang are you? Do they think you can deal w/ the stresses of filmmaking and not bum everyone else out--help maintain a productive set-vibe? Do they think you have the mental and physical endurance to keep your sense of humor and good attitude over a long hard shoot? That always said to me that the "negotiations" were actually part of the "interview"--which is where you need to show them that you can do the job--in person, like not through an agent.... Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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