cory Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 I am a big fan of the Countryman B6 for narrative. I find that it's very effective (in most but, as everyone has said, not all situations) to put the Countryman B6 AND a small tension loop inside the RM-11 and then double sided tape to the chest, bra, or collar. What I would love to see (not sure if this exists or not yet)is an RM11 with some vamps on it. THAT would make my day. Anyone else ever wish for this one? When on docs, I almost always use Tram TR50s vamped to the collar, or showing outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Denton Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Eddy, it's awesome if that rig works for you but how do you hide it? I feel like at times, the rig you built will simply be impractical and you won't have the ability to place it within wardrobe. It also looks like a giant version of what the RM11 is designed to do anyway. My experience has been that strangely enough, sometimes if you overdo a lav rig it actually works against you, and winds up being more of a pain than it's worth. This is true and I don't always use this rig. I find it most useful when I need to ensure the rig stays in place for a whole day because I may not get a chance to reapply or adjust it. Understand the idea that a larger surface area rig could be more trouble but I find that the big loop of tape provides greater insulation when miking a horribly noisy shirt that can't be changed. It accentuates the effect of the RM-11 by providing a bigger air gap. In regards to hiding it, the larger size actually helps. Kind of a hiding in plain sight approach. From the side there is a slight domed lump but from the front you can't notice. If it was a smaller rig you would see the definition of the lump. Again not useful for every situation but for things like the cooking show I'm on at the moment, where the camera is always in front of the talent and the mic needs to stay usable for long durations, it's perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toy Robot Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 Good deal. If it works, you've got a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Denton Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 " answers are annoying and they don't help. Please don't. " Everyone with half a brain knows that there isn't a method that works all the time, every time. We don't need to be told this like we're children. What the OP was after was some good discussion of different methods that people find interesting and helpful to bettering their own performance as a soundo, which for the most part this thread has done. It constantly annoys me how some users post responses that state the bleeding obvious. This is not Gearslutz forum. It's a forum for professional sound recordists and we don't need patronizing comments. There, I've had my little rant.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Lewis Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 Most times I just sandwich the mic in between 2 pieces of moleskin, but its the placement that makes the difference. The worst thing is to mic the collar of a t-shirt with the capsule of the mic pointed at the voice box. UHHHHHHH!! That said, you must also analyze what it is that your hearing and weather it will really be as bad as you may think it is. There are several differ types of rubbing noise. There is physical contact of clothing or skin on the mic (typically sounds really bad and is the worst), clothing rubbing on clothing (acoustic and not as nearly as bad as you think), cable noise (vibrations from contact to the cable traveling to the mic capsule) which is not that bad either. Physical contact usually requires a different rigging or placement of the mic. Acoustic noise is a product of the wardrobe (starchy, hairy chest, noisy fabric, neck stubble on the collar of a shirt etc). Cable conductance is usually solved by tying a knot in the mic cable close to the mic head. Perfect placement comes from experience and experimentation. Sometimes there is no good placement and you have to live with the best you got. If all else fails, and boom is a option, than boom it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael P Clark Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 What I would love to see (not sure if this exists or not yet)is an RM11 with some vamps on it. THAT would make my day. Anyone else ever wish for this one? I've made one by just breaking off the connector and super gluing the vamp to the RM11. I used it a couple times and didn't care for the rig. I found the RM11 is too bulky, and pulls the wardrobe down, causing more problems than you need. The tube vamp clips are better, but I don't use those much either. I prefer a low profile, minimalist approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boom Danny Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 I use Leukotape black (like mole skin in black) And fixomull transparent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanieldH Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 Any suggestions for lav'ing children, probably in tshirts on a windy lsland? Available are Trams or MKE2Gold on Senny G3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Denton Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 You won't have trouble with chest hair on children so my first though would be to mic the tshirt with a tram in a vampire clip. But hard to say without more specific detail of what your situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 " annoys me how some users post responses that state the bleeding obvious. " it annoys me that some folks overlook, or even resist, the bleeding obvious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDirckze Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 Hey, this tapatalk thing is cool! JDirckze, I'm in Melbs. We should talk. --- I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?s113rj Any time Eddy, always good to touch base with other soundos... --- I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?ciygoc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Pender Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 Another soundie from melbourne here, I've had luck using makeup sponge lately, similar to using hush lavs but you can cut it into whatever shape suits the wardobe. I try not to use duct tape on skin unless its the best option, I use medical tapes instead... The scene in my profile pic was one of those killer costumes, the amount of noise that the actual vest made was such a pain. I made a huge mount out of sponge to get enough distance from the vest, size wasn't a problem as it could be hidden well. ended up getting some decent results although boom was always the best option for this outfit. I also had problems with sweat running down the wire into the conection due to the heat. I used waterproof tape to fix the problem after drying it out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanieldH Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 You won't have trouble with chest hair on children so my first though would be to mic the tshirt with a tram in a vampire clip. But hard to say without more specific detail of what your situation Mainly outdoors at some pool. The mics should be hidden. I am sceptical with vampire-needles on children... lots of tears and interruption when spiked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Flaitz Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Another soundie from melbourne here, I've had luck using makeup sponge lately, similar to using hush lavs but you can cut it into whatever shape suits the wardobe. I never thought of this, seems like a great idea tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Kennedy Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 I never thought of this, seems like a great idea tho. I've been using makeup sponges for years with pretty good results. As Jack mentioned though, the wardrobe has to be fairly loose fitting to make them less visible. I find that the wedge shape makes it pretty efficient for keeping clothing, chest hair etc from touching the mic capsule. The other benefit is that they are super cheap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peggynames Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Mainly outdoors at some pool. The mics should be hidden. I am sceptical with vampire-needles on children... lots of tears and interruption when spiked. I agree, vampire clips on children are a bad idea.... Having worked with children on "the Little Rascals" and big children on"the Hangover 2" I would suggest picking up a needle and thread and sewing the mics sideways to the collar, across the shoulder, and down the back of the arm to the side... You can add a trimmed undercover to it on both sides before sewing and be very careful how you stitch so it does not pull the fabric too much. I find sewing mics in to be very effective Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainier Davenport Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Everyone with half a brain knows that there isn't a method that works all the time, every time. We don't need to be told this like we're children. What the OP was after was some good discussion of different methods that people find interesting and helpful to bettering their own performance as a soundo, which for the most part this thread has done. It constantly annoys me how some users post responses that state the bleeding obvious. This is not Gearslutz forum. It's a forum for professional sound recordists and we don't need patronizing comments. There, I've had my little rant.... Hello Ed, My advice to you about that one particularly unhelpful individual is to go up to the top of the JW page to where your name is in the right hand corner, click your name and select a box called 'manage ignore prefs', you can then enter that individual and you wont see their comments as long as you are signed in. My JW sound experience was improved greatly by following the above tips. Hope things are great in Melbourne, and you recovered from that Woolies conference we did a while ago. Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peggynames Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 I sure wish there was a do all, does all answer for this dilemma. With 37 years under my belt, and thousands of wiring situations, I still find that each one has it's own challenges. What worked yesterday doesn't work today. Something never tried before does the trick today. Yes, experience does help, but i admit i do not know it all, today I just learned of 3 new tapes to try because of this discussion. I do have to say that actors are much more willing to be wired today than Jimmy Stewart was back in the early 80's. It was a strange and unwanted intrusion for the talent. A good rapport with the actors is essential....and in working with them....I try to never put tape on their skin unless it is absolutely necessary, hairy or not. If tape on the skin is unavoidable, I would only use medical tape. If an actor has a bad experience with tape on the skin or hairy chest, they will not be willing to try it again so gaffers tape is not in my bag of tricks. I agree with placing the mike in the hair on the head with the help of the hair department, but most actors are resistant to this so use it as a last resort. It does not perform well in the wind in my experience. I believe that less is more...so start with as little as possible. Moleskin is very soft sounding but its adhesion is poor so sometimes I will back it with toupee tape (which the costume department likes) for extra adhesion. Transpore is easy and efficient most of the time. Hush lavs can be helpful it you have the room to use them. Joes sticky stuff is indispensable. I often make a donut around the mic for isolation. I also keep a needle and thread in my kit and have used it often. Sometimes it helps to run the mic from the back and over the shoulder and leave it a bit higher than you normally would, and don't worry if it is pointing down...it still sound good. This installation is especially helpful if the talent is running. The real trick is to have the mic almost showing... Do not bury it and give it some isolation.....crossing your fingers and praying for the best doesn't hurt either. I'm not going to touch the whole subject of women and boobs here except to say........keep it professional, please. Hope this helps.......some Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Great tips, Peggy -- much appreciated. Nothing beats real-world experience at this stuff. This discussion should be a "sticky" for the permanent archives! I have definitely used the "over the shoulder and pointing down" lav trick many times. I fell upon this out of sheer desperation, dealing with super-tight T-shirts. I've had to mike Danny Trejo three times in the last few years, and I swear, he wears the same costume in every picture: tight white tank-top, with no place to hide anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Hi, Peggy, and nice to see you posting... " I find sewing mics in to be very effective " this is an excellent old trick that today's productions are losing to inexperience and haste on the set. Sometimes it requires additional (and maybe specialty) lav's dedicated to the wardrobe over the course of the shoot. Preproduction coordination (at least prior to shoot day) with wardrobe folks can make our jobs easier and our results better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macrecorder Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Rainier, Top tip! Many thanks. Gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainier Davenport Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Rainier, Top tip! Many thanks. Gone. My pleasure! I was about to give up on this site until I did the same, and it has been tops ever since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 There is one place that always works, but I'm not telling anyone. Knowledge is power.;~) CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 Yeap. It's very good technique. But when the actor have hairs. And the Countryman B6 is the best lavalier for this. and there's no wind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 Betwee On women between the boobs and tape the bra to the clothing. works best. And if the lady talent is only wearing a bra it is even better. (: Very true! And I always take my time in finding ways to improve upon this very technique. LOL! And kidding of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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