Zack Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 Horrible editor makes my job sound like crap... phasing all over the place, camera sound used instead of off camera ISO's available.... so frustrating!!! I'm sure I'm not alone on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan H. Chang Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 Nope, not alone Zack. These so called producers wanting ISOs not knowing that their editors don't even have the knowledge to deal with it. After going through all the work in pre-prod and prod explaining on using your double-recording in post just doesn't cut it. Makes you want to pull hairs and never wished to have worked on the project in the first place. Was this on the network or back in the mixing stage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted May 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 network company that's editing the material. New editor they brought on that was obviously clueless about sound, cause visual is all that matter anyways these days right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan H. Chang Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 Didn't you used to be a post editor at a post house early in your days? Ay, should have pitched the producer that you used to edit on A-list Hollywood films and the post editorial results on this project is horrendous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 Sharing the same angst as you zack. Those idiot editors have even asked us to re-shoot shots we KNOW exists, just because they don't have the "time" to go through all the discs. :/ (null) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpsanos Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 Vidiots ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael McQueen Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 i'll chime in again regarding shooting things multiple times that i know was shot. on this one show i've been working on we asked the subject a question, he answered it short, sweet and awesome, producer was psyched. our next shoot, they ask the same question. subject is a sharp dude so he starts answering the question but then says, "its the same answer i gave last time" and stopped there. producer didn't agree with him so i chimed in confirming it, we moved on. the NEXT shoot they ask him again! this time the guy just asks, "have you guys lost footage or something? i've answered that already." it was pretty hilarious that talent was calling out the post crew for not finding stuff. that night at the hotel i found the question from my audio files in about 5 minutes and relayed its timecode info to post and the producer. they were psyched but then came back saying they didn't know there were ISO audio files till then! WTF?!?! we've been shooting this show for like 4 months and they are just now finding this out?!?! baffles me to me no end, humans…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted May 6, 2012 Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 they were psyched but then came back saying they didn't know there were ISO audio files till then! WTF?!?! That's scary. I usually send some kind of a memo at wrap (or on a long project, the end of the first day) outlining what's on the sound roll -- uh, folder -- how everything is broken down, a PDF of the sound report, and so on, and make sure there's a written record where the mix track and isos are, and not to use the camera track. My hope is, an editor or someone who actually understands what's going on will see this and get it. If nothing else, it's a "CYA" move which theoretically clears you of any blame later on. Horrible editor makes my job sound like crap... phasing all over the place, camera sound used instead of off camera ISO's available.... so frustrating!!! I'm sure I'm not alone on this? Is there out of phase stuff going to camera, or is it just a typical "boom on 1, wires on 2" situation? If they sum all that together, it can definitely get weird if there's no delay compensation. Have you called them and (nicely) offered any advice? I think there's a way to do this tactfully and non-confrontationally. We've had the exact same thing dealing with dailies clients and others who over-react to certain issues. I once had an assistant editor on the phone with me almost on the verge of tears, and she finally admitted she didn't know how to do a specific Avid function. I put her on hold, got our resident in-house Avid expert on the line, and conferenced the three of us together to hash it out. I made it clear to her, "hey, we just want to get the job done -- no finger-pointing here," and we figured it out together. I've also told editors, "hey, if you want, you can important all the tracks into your timeline, then just turn off all the tracks you don't need. Just because I give you 10 tacks doesn't mean they have to bother you. Just use the mix track if that works for you, and later on, open it back up and grab an iso or give it to your sound editor for tweaking." Some of them really are overwhelmed by the prospect of syncing and/or dealing with multitrack, and the camera track is just so easy, they do that out of ignorance and desperation (and sometimes lack of time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted May 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 Have you called them and (nicely) offered any advice? I think there's a way to do this tactfully and non-confrontationally. We've had the exact same thing dealing with dailies clients and others who over-react to certain issues. I once had an assistant editor on the phone with me almost on the verge of tears, and she finally admitted she didn't know how to do a specific Avid function. I put her on hold, got our resident in-house Avid expert on the line, and conferenced the three of us together to hash it out. I made it clear to her, "hey, we just want to get the job done -- no finger-pointing here," and we figured it out together. I've also told editors, "hey, if you want, you can important all the tracks into your timeline, then just turn off all the tracks you don't need. Just because I give you 10 tacks doesn't mean they have to bother you. Just use the mix track if that works for you, and later on, open it back up and grab an iso or give it to your sound editor for tweaking." Some of them really are overwhelmed by the prospect of syncing and/or dealing with multitrack, and the camera track is just so easy, they do that out of ignorance and desperation (and sometimes lack of time). I have done exactly this after this incident for this particular show and editor. I think this person was overwhelmed with the amount of tracks (or I like to say "options") I gave them, and left them all on. As for the mix to camera, yes I sent a sum'd mix to camera as a scratch...without any delay compensation. I would love to hear how others actually go about making a mono mix using boom, and multi (moving) lavs deployed in close proximity without the comb filtering issues that happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McL Posted May 6, 2012 Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 I have done exactly this after this incident for this particular show and editor. I think this person was overwhelmed with the amount of tracks (or I like to say "options") I gave them, and left them all on. As for the mix to camera, yes I sent a sum'd mix to camera as a scratch...without any delay compensation. I would love to hear how others actually go about making a mono mix using boom, and multi (moving) lavs deployed in close proximity without the comb filtering issues that happen? Zack, dealing with acoustic phase is certainly first a function of the ear: on hearing it, then either communicate with the boom op in the moment and/or make an adjustment at the board (less boom / more lav) then discuss with the boom op ("Give me another inch here, we got phase.") The best, most seasoned boom ops also hear the phase and are able to compensate on the fly. Sometimes, it's using Harry's lav to get Sally when they're standing close together. Tricky, but doable and a balancing act I very much enjoy. It's mathematics a small boom mic adjustment up, down or sideways can quickly cure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason porter Posted May 6, 2012 Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 Making a mono mix of lavs and boom while booming and running, becomes slightly more difficult when mixing in the "upright" position Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted May 6, 2012 Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 On "Crank: High Voltage" we discussed in prep capturing sound from the on-board camera mics. Prosumer cameras were being used, and directors wanted to capture the sound as they put cameras in all sorts of places. Live foley. We did tests to get levels right for various scenarios. We often mounted a 50 to the larger cameras, and we obtained a small stereo mic to mount on the HF10 palm cameras. Neither the mic nor camera were available retail at time of shooting. It was a real chore to get just one mic to use. Lots of calls to Canon execs, etc. We tested built-in mics vs. external, in case directors didn't want the mic in their way for some shots. A great deal of effort was made to put my mix and camera audio onto the new HD camera masters at "telecine", making those camera recordings available to post. After the project was complete, I talked to the great artists at Soundelux to ask if it was helpful to have those tracks, considering the effort to capture and preserve them. They had no idea they even existed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted May 6, 2012 Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 On "Crank: High Voltage" we discussed in prep capturing sound from the on-board camera mics. Prosumer cameras were being used, and directors wanted to capture the sound as they put cameras in all sorts of places. Live foley. We did tests to get levels right for various scenarios. We often mounted a 50 to the larger cameras, and we obtained a small stereo mic to mount on the HF10 palm cameras. Neither the mic nor camera were available retail at time of shooting. It was a real chore to get just one mic to use. Lots of calls to Canon execs, etc. We tested built-in mics vs. external, in case directors didn't want the mic in their way for some shots. A great deal of effort was made to put my mix and camera audio onto the new HD camera masters at "telecine", making those camera recordings available to post. After the project was complete, I talked to the great artists at Soundelux to ask if it was helpful to have those tracks, considering the effort to capture and preserve them. They had no idea they even existed! No one told them they were there. I think when you do something that's considered a bit oddball you have to really make a huge effort to make sure the info gets passed to the right people. phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 No one told them they were there. I think when you do something that's considered a bit oddball you have to really make a huge effort to make sure the info gets passed to the right people. phil p It was a bummer the information wasn't passed along from editorial, and it was clear I should have followed up. Another lesson learned. A lot of hard work wasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bondelev Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 The problem is that the middle of the workflow is often a picture editor that has never dealt with sound. The production sound crew knows what they are doing, and the sound editors know what they are doing, but the picture editor does not know that there are multiple tracks or a mix track, or which tracks to use. They think it's our job to fix it. On numerous occasions I've been told there no split tracks even though it's obvious that is not the case. The problem is that between time and budget, I have no choice but to use what the picture editor output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT Groove Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 This sounds all too common. I think an open line of communication between the production sound mixer and the editors is key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 I think this is where a good post supervisor should step in and act as referee. If the person doing the final dialog edit or re-recording mix runs into trouble, they should be able to call up the production sound mixer and say, "hey, did you make any isos on this," or "did you record split tracks or just a mono mix?" Something like that would take 1 minute to do, and even if all of those tracks have to be located, copied over, and conformed, that ultimately might be much less time than trying to deal with everything summed together, or some other similar disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 " I would love to hear how others actually go about making a mono mix " hmmm... it depends ?? (well, it does!) or you can't boom and mix (really mix!) at the same time... (that's obvious) or it takes years of experience to get years of experience... or all of the above (especially the experience...) first step is finding out what the workflow will be, and in doing that, thus determining (and possibly influencing) what will happen to all of the elements in post.. "we" are definitely at the mercy of the editors, the posties, the PM's/LP's, the producers, the directors, the bean-counters, and the DP's on any, and every shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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