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788T/SSD Audio Drop Out on CF card


slemaker

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Hello All,

After many many many hours of flawless operation I had an issue with my 788 recently. I was recording 5 tracks of audio at 48, 24bit on SSD, CF and external DVD. It was a longer recording of a live comedy show. About half an hour into the recording the external drive indicator showed SLOW and never caught up so to speak. I could live with this issue as the DVD is really just for back up purposes. After the the recording (about 1hr 9m in total) I realized that some of the audio was missing from the .wav file on the CF card. I realized because I got that dreaded call from production, hahaha. Turns out that at about the 6.5 minute mark into the recording the audio disappears from the CF card. There was no indication of a problem from the 788 itself. When you listen back the audio is perfect (of course) then suddenly there is no audio at all for the remainder of the .wav file... I simply copied the files from the INNHD to another CF card and luckily all the audio was there. It was strange to say the least. Any comments are appreciated.

Thanks,

Charlie

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I had this happen once due to a faulty CF card. As a side note I never exceed like to record a file larger then 4 tracks longer then 10 mins. I'm sure you already know this but hitting record button starts new file that is easy for post to combine as it it frame and sample accurate.

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Hey Charlie...

You have recorded 5 tracks before right... with that card? but for that long ?, probably not so often... Sounds like a buffer filled up and the machine dropped the non essential items from it's list of things to record to... If only the Internal got it, maybe that was it...

Slower card?... re check it's speed rating...

Don't know for sure, but... just because...

I would send your CF card to the Mac for an in depth re format... I do it once and a while, it takes a long time... but I believe it helps keep things in order..

Pick your level of erase... at least a zero out or 7 pass... they get filled with crap once and a while... need to be "washed out"...

Bob

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello All,

After many many many hours of flawless operation I had an issue with my 788 recently. I was recording 5 tracks of audio at 48, 24bit on SSD, CF and external DVD. It was a longer recording of a live comedy show. About half an hour into the recording the external drive indicator showed SLOW and never caught up so to speak. I could live with this issue as the DVD is really just for back up purposes. After the the recording (about 1hr 9m in total) I realized that some of the audio was missing from the .wav file on the CF card. I realized because I got that dreaded call from production, hahaha. Turns out that at about the 6.5 minute mark into the recording the audio disappears from the CF card. There was no indication of a problem from the 788 itself. When you listen back the audio is perfect (of course) then suddenly there is no audio at all for the remainder of the .wav file... I simply copied the files from the INNHD to another CF card and luckily all the audio was there. It was strange to say the least. Any comments are appreciated.

Thanks,

Charlie

I'm very sorry to read that happened!

Said that, I never record to more than one media at a time, since that is calling for problems in the devices we use (I use a Deva for many years now but record to the main internal disk always) I know many do that on a daily basis but my experience is that that puts the recorder at it's limits re. data handling.

Even on a good computer, unless using an specialized disk array (RAID etc), copying from one source to more than one destination will often be unsuccessful.

I'd love to hear how wrong I am, trust me.

I think that is still a weak point in our recorders. Fortunately the Deva is very very safe in the way it writes it's files to disk, file system, etc. But I'm talking about writing to more than one "disk" simultaneously and being as safe.

And CF cards (or any flash card) are not the safest, although they are practical for delivery duties. I can't trust it as a recording media (so far)

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I'm very sorry to read that happened!

Said that, I never record to more than one media at a time, since that is calling for problems in the devices we use (I use a Deva for many years now but record to the main internal disk always) I know many do that on a daily basis but my experience is that that puts the recorder at it's limits re. data handling.

Even on a good computer, unless using an specialized disk array (RAID etc), copying from one source to more than one destination will often be unsuccessful.

I'd love to hear how wrong I am, trust me.

I think that is still a weak point in our recorders. Fortunately the Deva is very very safe in the way it writes it's files to disk, file system, etc. But I'm talking about writing to more than one "disk" simultaneously and being as safe.

And CF cards (or any flash card) are not the safest, although they are practical for delivery duties. I can't trust it as a recording media (so far)

There is nothing inherently safe or unsafe about recording to a CF card. As a format, I've found that they are more reliable than any hard disk. What's being discussed here is how the recorder dealt with what sounds like a buffer under-run. SD recorders prioritize to the internal HD when other media are being recorded to at the same time--that's a choice the designers of the machine made. Using a fast card (the OP hasn't stated what card he was using) and reformatting often will help. Many many users of recorders that are CF only (the Nomad and 702 among them) have great luck recording exclusively to CF cards.

phil p

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>Many many users of recorders that are CF only (the Nomad and 702 among them) have great luck recording exclusively to CF cards.

I know. I use Deva V so I don't use a CF as a prim. media.

I guess the point is how the recorder writes to the CF card, AFAIK it is not the same procedure as writing to a hard disk. I assume buffering is different too.

Happy to read so many (or everybody maybe) are having success using a CF as the prim. media...

Anyway, the most problem I see (as lack of reliability) is to write to the main hard disk and to a CF at the same time. I'm worry that a buffer problem with the data going to the CF could freeze the recorder. This is my main concern, but if it works for everybody 100% without any hiccup, great

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>I have been recording to (788) HD, CF and EXTHD with complete success, 6-7 tracks plus a 2 channel mix.

That's 8-9 tracks to 3 media simultaneously, is it?

If that's the case, that's great

While recording to 3 media simult. on the 788, in case of a failure during a take (power off, freeze, buffer underrun, whatever) will you loose that take in all 3 media? Or if the failure was due to the internal hard disk, will you loose all data in the hard disk?

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>Many many users of recorders that are CF only (the Nomad and 702 among them) have great luck recording exclusively to CF cards.

I know. I use Deva V so I don't use a CF as a prim. media.

I guess the point is how the recorder writes to the CF card, AFAIK it is not the same procedure as writing to a hard disk. I assume buffering is different too.

Happy to read so many (or everybody maybe) are having success using a CF as the prim. media...

Anyway, the most problem I see (as lack of reliability) is to write to the main hard disk and to a CF at the same time. I'm worry that a buffer problem with the data going to the CF could freeze the recorder. This is my main concern, but if it works for everybody 100% without any hiccup, great

I had my primary hard drive crash once and I was really happy to have been recording to the cf card as well. I suppose I might have been able send off the hard drive to recover the audio somewhere, but it sure was a relief to hand in the cf card with all the audio at the end of the day.

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it was a 788t. I do agree with you about not running too many things at once though. I get a little nervous plugging in a cl9, keyboard, computer with wave agent AND recording to three media. I typically just record to two media. I always wondered what would happen if I add in the cl-wifi on top of all of that LOL

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>what would happen if I add in the cl-wifi on top of all of that LOL

for sure it will be harder to make the crew switch their iPhones to airplain mode! LOL

So, all audio on the HD went bad and everything on the CF was OK?

Was it a mechanic HD or SSD?

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I run a CL-8, CL-WiFi, 3 media and 6-7 tracks, 5 days a week, an average 5-6 hours of almost non-stop recording. No issues (knocking wood!)

good to know!

Fernando- it was the SSD drive. I had been getting slow right speed errors for a few takes and it finally just died. I sent it back to the hard drive manufacturer (not sd) since it was still under warranty and put it back, been working fine ever since. the audio on the cf card was fine.

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I had this happen once due to a faulty CF card. As a side note I never exceed like to record a file larger then 4 tracks longer then 10 mins. I'm sure you already know this but hitting record button starts new file that is easy for post to combine as it it frame and sample accurate.

This is unneccesary as the 788 will auto create a new take that is sample accurate once the 2gig file size limit has been reached. Really the only limit to size and length of a recording is the size of your media.

Wandering Ear

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good to know!

Fernando- it was the SSD drive. I had been getting slow right speed errors for a few takes and it finally just died. I sent it back to the hard drive manufacturer (not sd) since it was still under warranty and put it back, been working fine ever since. the audio on the cf card was fine.

Thank you very much Brian, useful info

On the 788, can you keep recording to the CF as the only media if the internal SSD or HD dies?

And to the external FW HD?

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I think the point made is that if the primary card on Nomad fails, there is no redundant drive running at the same time. On the 7 series, if the CF or HDD fail (or are too slow), it will continue to write to the other. As there is only one primary drive in Nomad, it's not possible to do that. Though MARF has its own benefits over the FAT system used in 7 series.

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yes, that's what I meant

True that a CF is faster to replace in the case of Nomad but the case is the main (CF) and the mirroring (CF) are not interchangeable (and for a reason, MARF format used to write to the main card is very secure)

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