slemaker Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Hello All, After many many many hours of flawless operation I had an issue with my 788 recently. I was recording 5 tracks of audio at 48, 24bit on SSD, CF and external DVD. It was a longer recording of a live comedy show. About half an hour into the recording the external drive indicator showed SLOW and never caught up so to speak. I could live with this issue as the DVD is really just for back up purposes. After the the recording (about 1hr 9m in total) I realized that some of the audio was missing from the .wav file on the CF card. I realized because I got that dreaded call from production, hahaha. Turns out that at about the 6.5 minute mark into the recording the audio disappears from the CF card. There was no indication of a problem from the 788 itself. When you listen back the audio is perfect (of course) then suddenly there is no audio at all for the remainder of the .wav file... I simply copied the files from the INNHD to another CF card and luckily all the audio was there. It was strange to say the least. Any comments are appreciated. Thanks, Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProSound Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 I had this happen once due to a faulty CF card. As a side note I never exceed like to record a file larger then 4 tracks longer then 10 mins. I'm sure you already know this but hitting record button starts new file that is easy for post to combine as it it frame and sample accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afewmoreyears Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Hey Charlie... You have recorded 5 tracks before right... with that card? but for that long ?, probably not so often... Sounds like a buffer filled up and the machine dropped the non essential items from it's list of things to record to... If only the Internal got it, maybe that was it... Slower card?... re check it's speed rating... Don't know for sure, but... just because... I would send your CF card to the Mac for an in depth re format... I do it once and a while, it takes a long time... but I believe it helps keep things in order.. Pick your level of erase... at least a zero out or 7 pass... they get filled with crap once and a while... need to be "washed out"... Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 Hello All, After many many many hours of flawless operation I had an issue with my 788 recently. I was recording 5 tracks of audio at 48, 24bit on SSD, CF and external DVD. It was a longer recording of a live comedy show. About half an hour into the recording the external drive indicator showed SLOW and never caught up so to speak. I could live with this issue as the DVD is really just for back up purposes. After the the recording (about 1hr 9m in total) I realized that some of the audio was missing from the .wav file on the CF card. I realized because I got that dreaded call from production, hahaha. Turns out that at about the 6.5 minute mark into the recording the audio disappears from the CF card. There was no indication of a problem from the 788 itself. When you listen back the audio is perfect (of course) then suddenly there is no audio at all for the remainder of the .wav file... I simply copied the files from the INNHD to another CF card and luckily all the audio was there. It was strange to say the least. Any comments are appreciated. Thanks, Charlie I'm very sorry to read that happened! Said that, I never record to more than one media at a time, since that is calling for problems in the devices we use (I use a Deva for many years now but record to the main internal disk always) I know many do that on a daily basis but my experience is that that puts the recorder at it's limits re. data handling. Even on a good computer, unless using an specialized disk array (RAID etc), copying from one source to more than one destination will often be unsuccessful. I'd love to hear how wrong I am, trust me. I think that is still a weak point in our recorders. Fortunately the Deva is very very safe in the way it writes it's files to disk, file system, etc. But I'm talking about writing to more than one "disk" simultaneously and being as safe. And CF cards (or any flash card) are not the safest, although they are practical for delivery duties. I can't trust it as a recording media (so far) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 Does using disk utility on the Mac to write zeros to the CF, or using one of the other security options, really clean up the CF or make it more reliable in terms of writing data? What other "cleaning" options are there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted May 17, 2012 Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 I'm very sorry to read that happened! Said that, I never record to more than one media at a time, since that is calling for problems in the devices we use (I use a Deva for many years now but record to the main internal disk always) I know many do that on a daily basis but my experience is that that puts the recorder at it's limits re. data handling. Even on a good computer, unless using an specialized disk array (RAID etc), copying from one source to more than one destination will often be unsuccessful. I'd love to hear how wrong I am, trust me. I think that is still a weak point in our recorders. Fortunately the Deva is very very safe in the way it writes it's files to disk, file system, etc. But I'm talking about writing to more than one "disk" simultaneously and being as safe. And CF cards (or any flash card) are not the safest, although they are practical for delivery duties. I can't trust it as a recording media (so far) There is nothing inherently safe or unsafe about recording to a CF card. As a format, I've found that they are more reliable than any hard disk. What's being discussed here is how the recorder dealt with what sounds like a buffer under-run. SD recorders prioritize to the internal HD when other media are being recorded to at the same time--that's a choice the designers of the machine made. Using a fast card (the OP hasn't stated what card he was using) and reformatting often will help. Many many users of recorders that are CF only (the Nomad and 702 among them) have great luck recording exclusively to CF cards. phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Posted May 17, 2012 Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 >Many many users of recorders that are CF only (the Nomad and 702 among them) have great luck recording exclusively to CF cards. I know. I use Deva V so I don't use a CF as a prim. media. I guess the point is how the recorder writes to the CF card, AFAIK it is not the same procedure as writing to a hard disk. I assume buffering is different too. Happy to read so many (or everybody maybe) are having success using a CF as the prim. media... Anyway, the most problem I see (as lack of reliability) is to write to the main hard disk and to a CF at the same time. I'm worry that a buffer problem with the data going to the CF could freeze the recorder. This is my main concern, but if it works for everybody 100% without any hiccup, great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason porter Posted May 17, 2012 Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 I have been recording to (788) HD, CF and EXTHD with complete success, 6-7 tracks plus a 2 channel mix. The CF card gets formatted in the 788 before each day (5 cards in rotation, shooting 5 days a week) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Posted May 17, 2012 Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 >I have been recording to (788) HD, CF and EXTHD with complete success, 6-7 tracks plus a 2 channel mix. That's 8-9 tracks to 3 media simultaneously, is it? If that's the case, that's great While recording to 3 media simult. on the 788, in case of a failure during a take (power off, freeze, buffer underrun, whatever) will you loose that take in all 3 media? Or if the failure was due to the internal hard disk, will you loose all data in the hard disk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian albritton Posted May 17, 2012 Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 >Many many users of recorders that are CF only (the Nomad and 702 among them) have great luck recording exclusively to CF cards. I know. I use Deva V so I don't use a CF as a prim. media. I guess the point is how the recorder writes to the CF card, AFAIK it is not the same procedure as writing to a hard disk. I assume buffering is different too. Happy to read so many (or everybody maybe) are having success using a CF as the prim. media... Anyway, the most problem I see (as lack of reliability) is to write to the main hard disk and to a CF at the same time. I'm worry that a buffer problem with the data going to the CF could freeze the recorder. This is my main concern, but if it works for everybody 100% without any hiccup, great I had my primary hard drive crash once and I was really happy to have been recording to the cf card as well. I suppose I might have been able send off the hard drive to recover the audio somewhere, but it sure was a relief to hand in the cf card with all the audio at the end of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Posted May 17, 2012 Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 That's great Brian. Was it a 788 or a Deva? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian albritton Posted May 17, 2012 Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 it was a 788t. I do agree with you about not running too many things at once though. I get a little nervous plugging in a cl9, keyboard, computer with wave agent AND recording to three media. I typically just record to two media. I always wondered what would happen if I add in the cl-wifi on top of all of that LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Posted May 17, 2012 Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 >what would happen if I add in the cl-wifi on top of all of that LOL for sure it will be harder to make the crew switch their iPhones to airplain mode! LOL So, all audio on the HD went bad and everything on the CF was OK? Was it a mechanic HD or SSD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason porter Posted May 17, 2012 Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 I run a CL-8, CL-WiFi, 3 media and 6-7 tracks, 5 days a week, an average 5-6 hours of almost non-stop recording. No issues (knocking wood!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian albritton Posted May 17, 2012 Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 I run a CL-8, CL-WiFi, 3 media and 6-7 tracks, 5 days a week, an average 5-6 hours of almost non-stop recording. No issues (knocking wood!) good to know! Fernando- it was the SSD drive. I had been getting slow right speed errors for a few takes and it finally just died. I sent it back to the hard drive manufacturer (not sd) since it was still under warranty and put it back, been working fine ever since. the audio on the cf card was fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomboom Posted May 17, 2012 Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 Jason, that's good to hear; What CF Card and ext drive models are you using ? That's what I'm heading to in terms of gig soon... Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted May 17, 2012 Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 I had this happen once due to a faulty CF card. As a side note I never exceed like to record a file larger then 4 tracks longer then 10 mins. I'm sure you already know this but hitting record button starts new file that is easy for post to combine as it it frame and sample accurate. This is unneccesary as the 788 will auto create a new take that is sample accurate once the 2gig file size limit has been reached. Really the only limit to size and length of a recording is the size of your media. Wandering Ear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason porter Posted May 17, 2012 Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 I will have to confirm this with the owner, but I believe it is a Lacie Rugged 320GB and the CF cards are 32 GB Sandisk Extreme (60 mbs transfer speed) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 good to know! Fernando- it was the SSD drive. I had been getting slow right speed errors for a few takes and it finally just died. I sent it back to the hard drive manufacturer (not sd) since it was still under warranty and put it back, been working fine ever since. the audio on the cf card was fine. Thank you very much Brian, useful info On the 788, can you keep recording to the CF as the only media if the internal SSD or HD dies? And to the external FW HD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 Thank you very much Brian, useful info On the 788, can you keep recording to the CF as the only media if the internal SSD or HD dies? And to the external FW HD? Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 wow that's great! Not sure if we can do that on the Deva, Fusion and Nomad... I'd say it's not possible... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 wow that's great! Not sure if we can do that on the Deva, Fusion and Nomad... I'd say it's not possible... How is this not possible on the Nomad? the Nomad only records to cf cards, so no internal to fail. a cf card fails, you just replace it. Wandering Ear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 I think the point made is that if the primary card on Nomad fails, there is no redundant drive running at the same time. On the 7 series, if the CF or HDD fail (or are too slow), it will continue to write to the other. As there is only one primary drive in Nomad, it's not possible to do that. Though MARF has its own benefits over the FAT system used in 7 series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomboom Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 That's how I understand it too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 yes, that's what I meant True that a CF is faster to replace in the case of Nomad but the case is the main (CF) and the mirroring (CF) are not interchangeable (and for a reason, MARF format used to write to the main card is very secure) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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