Nima Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Hey folks, In short (if you don't have time) What do you do when you have to record dialogue with a generator running in the background? Background story (if you have time) I had a shoot today and we had loud generator that we couldn't place too far away from where the action was happening (about 40-50 meters at most). This was due to budget restrictions on power cables. I hated it, and it totally interfered with getting a clean forest sound under the dialogue. We turned the jenny so that the noisy exhaust/engine or whatever it is was facing away from the shoot, and we put a semi-sound-blanket on top to tunnel the sound further away from us. I also had the actors talking, mostly, in the direction of the jenny so that the mic could face away from it. But I could still hear a significant generator underneath everything. What would you have done? I used a KMR 81. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Yeremian Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 If its in a wide open area like a forest I use a solid baffle to bounce the sond away from set. You can use foam core or bounce boards, make a little 4 sided fort around the genny with the only opening facing away from the set. then you can drap furni pads or whatever over it. It works really well when there is nothing around for the sound to bounce back from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Cmit 5U. That's what i do. And an occasional baffle (null) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 I had some crewmembers agree to find a nearby ditch and put the generator it! That, plus some wood panels, knocked the noise down by at least half. On city streets, it's nice if they can do a cable run around the corner, so at least there's half a building between the actors and the gennies. "Budget restrictions on power cables." Oh, that's a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornbuckle Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 It's funny, If the generator was in the BG of the shot it would get moved further away immediately. Not enough budget for power links? Bound to be cheaper to ADR the whole scene.... Must have been frustrating to be on a forested place away from city noise and traffic and have to put up with Genny noise. Rob EDIT: I think you were on the right track with the Neumann. I bet it was quiet, mumbling actors as well! (don't get me started) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacefivesound Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Their budget restriction on power cables just got screwed by their need to hire a sound editor. now a $100 stinger looks pretty appealing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikolozj Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 "Budget restrictions on power cables." Oh, that's a good one. I experienced this last year. They had one 18K light and didn't have long enough cable for it. Another thing is that if generator is loaded too much then its noise gets worse in a way that the frequency range gets wider and it's harder to cut it out on post. Anyway, if light crew is not being helpful what I'd do is warn directors or producers and clap that it's ADR and record it just like I'd do without generator noise. You'll never know what post magicians will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Collins Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Park the grip truck between the generator and the set. A big bounce. We forget but sometimes production has already decided that they will ADR certain scenes. Pity they never tell us.;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 My favorite gaffers i've worked with usually already know ahead of time, but during location scouts consult with me about genny location and get my approval ahead of time. That way they can order extra cable etc... as the location requires. +1 for putting any and all obstructions in between set and the genny. Wandering Ear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toy Robot Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Without enough budget for proper power cables, I promise you there will be no 'post magicians'. This is a crew that will learn the hard way. On a side note, when you do have to film EXT shots with a genny running within ear-shot, make sure you pay very close attention to the axis of your microphone from shot to shot. Even if you are pointed away from the genny the entire day, changing the mic's axis frequently will create a poor situation in post. Next time you're in that situation, move the mic say 5-10 degrees one direction or the other while there is no dialog and listen carefully to the genny in the background. It will almost surely be an eye opening moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 make sure you pay very close attention to the axis of your microphone from shot to shot. +1 if there are two ditections you primarily point the mic, get wild track of the genny with the mic in both positions. Wandering Ear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 " What do you do when you have to record dialogue with a generator running in the background? " short ?, short answer: The best you can. " due to budget restrictions on power cables. " aka: tripping over $$ to pick up pennies... another case of unreasonable expectations by folks who have no clue. reminder: it is not a sound problem, it is a sound that is a problem, and as others on the set are creating it, it is their problem to solve... so, yeah, you do the best you can, with the situation at hand, and move on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nima Posted May 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Chase Yeremian: Oh, that's great! Where do you find those pieces? Regular hardware store? Cmit 5U. That's what i do. And an occasional baffle They only had the budget for one mic rental, so I went with the 81. But for future shoots, would you say the CMIT works well indoors as well? I had some crewmembers agree to find a nearby ditch and put the generator it! That, plus some wood panels, knocked the noise down by at least half. I think a lot of it was my fault here too. I was not prepared for the genny, so all we had was a sound blanket. We did put it in a ditch but could only go as far as the cables would allow us to. It's funny, If the generator was in the BG of the shot it would get moved further away immediately. Not enough budget for power links? Bound to be cheaper to ADR the whole scene.... Must have been frustrating to be on a forested place away from city noise and traffic and have to put up with Genny noise. Rob EDIT: I think you were on the right track with the Neumann. I bet it was quiet, mumbling actors as well! (don't get me started) Pretty quiet actors at times indeed. Well... I'm their audio-post person too... so if anything, I'm the one who has to put up with the ADR-hours. Which, quite frankly, I'm not sure if I'll manage to find time for... but it may have to happen. It's a free favour for a friend really. So no budget at all for anything. ...if light crew is not being helpful what I'd do is warn directors or producers and clap that it's ADR and record it just like I'd do without generator noise. You'll never know what post magicians will do. For the future Ill keep that i n mind, but for this shoot, it was such a small crew. The director and the producer were both doing lighting and camera and on and on. Also, I'm the one who's doing the audio post, so I will have to come up with the magic myself. :S Park the grip truck between the generator and the set. A big bounce. That's a great one! However there was no grip truck, but there was a little van we could have used, and I did suggest that, but they were afraid of putting the genny right next to the car, in case a fire would break out. On a side note, when you do have to film EXT shots with a genny running within ear-shot, make sure you pay very close attention to the axis of your microphone from shot to shot. Indeed, a slight turn in the axis made a hug difference. Unfortunately the actors were positioned in a way that forced me to use almost half a circle. But I tried to always point the mic away from the genny, as much as possible. ------ Folks, thank you so, so much for all the great advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hartley Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Has anyone tried recording out of phase audio on the genny and mixing it to cancel? It may be a way to save otherwise unusable audio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 " I'm the one who has to put up with the ADR-hours. " hours = $$$ " would you say the CMIT works well indoors as well? " about the same as the 81... one different mic, or even one or more additional mic's would not solve the issues you had. the more you write, the more convincing: "another case of unreasonable expectations by folks who have no clue". I'm now beginning to suspect that you will be expected to pay the price (in post) for their, ahem, stupidity.. er, ah...foolishnesses ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirror Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 To be clear - the CMIT will not make the genny noise go away. They are not much different then the 81. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nima Posted May 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 the more you write, the more convincing: "another case of unreasonable expectations by folks who have no clue". I'm now beginning to suspect that you will be expected to pay the price (in post) for their, ahem, stupidity.. er, ah...foolishnesses ?? The short answer is yes. The longer answer is, it's a free favour for a friend, and I have already explained to them that I don't have much time between my radio-work, paid freelance gigs, and my music, to put into post for a no-budget movie. I don't want to get into trash-talking anyone here or anywhere else. It's rather unfair. At the end of the day, I accepted the gig. Sure, it would have been nice to have a little more time and thought put into how to make the location sound work, but it is what it is. They, and myself, are recent graduates. Once they see the final product, they will hopefully learn to put more thought and planning into the sound in the future, seeing that everything is not fixable in post. And I have learned more things that I need to expect of and discuss with the people who want good sound... before going to set. if there are two ditections you primarily point the mic, get wild track of the genny with the mic in both positions. I did get wild tracks of all the directions where I had the mic, with the genny on, and with the genny off, so we'll see how it will help me in post when I get there. However we did have a fire on as well, and so that may, will (edit) complicate things. And foolishly I did not record the genny without the fire. That may have made it easier. Were you thinking RX, or are you thinking something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 I am talking about getting enough wild track so in post you can at least fill it in and make it consistant. A constant background noise is much easier to mask or tune out than one with a lot of variation. Your in the woods? add a river running in the background, hopefully the genny is quiet enough to blend in and sound like part of the water. just an idea. Wandering Ear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nima Posted May 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 (edited) I am talking about getting enough wild track so in post you can at least fill it in and make it consistant. A constant background noise is much easier to mask or tune out than one with a lot of variation. Your in the woods? add a river running in the background, hopefully the genny is quiet enough to blend in and sound like part of the water. just an idea. Wandering Ear I did record some wild track, about 6 1-minute tracks for night time, and 2 3-minute tracks for daytime, but it was really weird. It was around 11pm and the birds were singing pretty loudly, so I may have to make a trip to another forest at a later time. I'll have to put more time into recording wildtrack in the future. EDIT: Or rather, I'll have to ask for silence from everyone for a longer period in the future. Thanks for that! Oh, and I really like the brook idea! Thanks again! Edited May 7, 2012 by Nima Shams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlimp Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 I had the same thing a while ago. Cheapo shoot in the woods - I made sure the director fully understood that the generator need be parked in at least 150 ms distance and, no matter how they'd do it, I didn't want to hear any of it - or I wouldn't do it. Got a bit of complaining, but it worked and it was for the best I guess. Post was terrible enough without the damn thing. Good luck with your project! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berniebeaudry Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 You could also have had the actors do the lines wild without the generator running. Maybe too long of a scene to help but at least you'd have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkautzsch Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 I had a woods location once where there was no chance to place the genny farther away than about 40 mtrs. And I mean, there *really* wasn't. It was a "silent", though not "super silent" cine genny, and a low hum was clearly audible. We used a KM120 fig-8 on the boom, keeping the genny in the null and using proximity effect (or rather the opposite of proximity effect). No genny was audible through the mic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srgtfury Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 I had a woods location once where there was no chance to place the genny farther away than about 40 mtrs. And I mean, there *really* wasn't. It was a "silent", though not "super silent" cine genny, and a low hum was clearly audible. We used a KM120 fig-8 on the boom, keeping the genny in the null and using proximity effect (or rather the opposite of proximity effect). No genny was audible through the mic. For those Sound Persons, who have related-wavelength hearing loss, whether gap or acuity attenuation, what is the work around? Spectrum analyzers, or the like, esp. as regards low frequency sounds, of this nature? Thank you very much Fury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesT Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Always get it as far away as possible. Always reflect as much of that sound away as you can. Always put as many reflective and absorptive barriers between you and the genny. Always get wild tracks of the genny for every setup you do as the sound of the genny will sometimes change with the number of lights it is powering. Doing these things while staying mindful of your mic position, are just about the best we can do once we are already at the location with no budget. Location scouts are invaluable. Addressing the obligatory generator issue BEFORE getting there is invaluable. A good relationship with the gaffer is invaluable. Even though we obviously had enough stingers in these photos they were not allowing us to run the genny far enough away without voltage drops Additionally this particular genny was louder than most i have worked with. We spent a little money on 100 yds of Romex and one of those garden hose reels (for yard use) to wrangle the very stiff romex. A buddy on G&E had a couple of plugs around and wired it all up in about an hour. (i am sure this broke some safety codes...) Time and money well spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 " Time and money well spent. " a proper generator, and proper wiring would be time and money better spent. " this broke some safety codes " and that alone makes it unacceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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