SD302 Mix Out Question

[OmahaAudio]

I'm currently using the "Tape Out / Mix Out" TA3 output on a SD302 to go into the right/left XLR inputs of a recorder. This leaves the main XLR outputs free for a breakaway cable to go into a camera.

If I'm not going wired into a camera would there be any benefit, sound-wise or level-wise, to using the mixer's main XLR outputs to feed the recorder? As it's only an 18 inch TA3-to-recorder run I can't see how but there are many people here smarter about this stuff than I am.

[Angelo Waldron]

What recorder?

If recorder is looking for Pro Line level input, best to use 302 XLR outputs, as TA3 tape output is consumer level.

[jrd456]

Think impedance as well.

J.D.

[Wandering Ear]

the ta3 tape out is also un balanced.

[Max Hirtenstein]

i just ordered the y cable to make this possible myself

[johnpaul215]

Most of us use the mix out for feeding comtek/IFB or a backup recorder for transcription. The unbalanced mono output it fine for those uses, but you are doing a disservice to your audio by sending that to a primary recorder.

[Max Hirtenstein]

i forgot to mention... that i plan to use the tape out to feed a backup recorder when also using a breakaway. for normal recording i use the xlr outs.

[Max Futterman]

Y cables can also be your friend.

[OmahaAudio]

What recorder?

Currently a Tascam DR-40, later an SD702/702T.

[OmahaAudio]

i forgot to mention... that i plan to use the tape out to feed a backup recorder when also using a breakaway. for normal recording i use the xlr outs.

Sort of "what he said"... But why use the XLR outs for normal recording? Tradition? Better audio?

[Max Hirtenstein]

Sort of "what he said"... But why use the XLR outs for normal recording? Tradition? Better audio?

because the xlrs are balanced and sending audio to a recorder is what they were meant to do. tape out is meant for a backup or perhaps IFB I believe. so why risk it? output level is also adjustable on the XLRs if you need to swap recorders for some reason.

[OmahaAudio]

because the xlrs are balanced and sending audio to a recorder is what they were meant to do. tape out is meant for a backup or perhaps IFB I believe. so why risk it? output level is also adjustable on the XLRs if you need to swap recorders for some reason.

A balanced output is usually meant for a long cable run, 18 inches? Not a long run. Output level (adjusted) should be the same between the SD302's TA3 output and its XLR output. So is there any real world difference in the quality of the audio between the two given the 18 inch cable length?

[Tom Visser]

I think balanced input to cheap recorders is counterproductive, as it requires additional active circuitry to unbalance that signal, and often times it will be the cheapest method possible, or perhaps even simply grounding the negative phase, which effectively is an unbalanced signal to begin with. Perhaps do a test and measure the quantitative difference, in this case, a change in the noise floor... which will likely be insignificant or unmeasurable if the equipment is competent. I doubt that there would be a qualitative difference, other than the possible noise floor difference.

[al mcguire]

From 302 manual page 12

The Tape Output is typically used to interface with consumer inputs such as MiniDisc, DAT, and compact cassette recorders. The 302 has an unbalanced, two-channel tape level output

on a single, locking Switchcraft TA3M-type connector.

The Tape Output program is identical to the XLR Output. Tape Out level is fixed at a -15 dBu nominal level and is electrically isolated from the XLR Outputs. Additionally, the Tape Output functions as the Mix Out to link multiple Sound Devices mixers.

[jason porter]

I have used both sets of outputs with an Edirol R-09 with no noticeable difference. Of course, the line level input on the Edirol gets bumped up to 14 (from 4) when using the Tape Out.

[John Blankenship]

For a short cable run (and 18" is definitely a short cable run), balanced or unbalanced makes little difference and the higher impedance of the tape out is of little consequence. For long cable runs both of these issues makes a difference.

The 302 tape out will work fine into a recorder as long as the recorder's input impedance is 6k ohms or greater and the levels work okay.

As a matter of fact, if you're using a consumer-type recorder, the ouput level of the tape out may be better matched than the main (XLR) outputs. If a consumer-type recorder has a gain stage prior to the input potentiometer, a full, professional line level output might overload it on peaks.

[Colin Heath]

Instead of using the tape out you could also have Two Y XLR cables made to send from your xlr outs into your recorder, then the other part of the why could be used to send to camera or what have you.

Just an other idea.

I have done both

[Peter Deutscher]

Instead of using the tape out you could also have Two Y XLR cables made to send from your xlr outs into your recorder, then the other part of the why could be used to send to camera or what have you.

Just an other idea.

I have done both

+1

[Philip Perkins]

You don't need to worry about sending the TAPE output of a 302 to a recorder of any level of quality. The OP's method of using the tape out to feed a "local" recorder (short lines, in the bag) and saving the XLR balanced outs for a camera feed is a very good idea, and saves a messy Y cable scrum with lots of XLR "joins" involved. With my recorders I've just gained up the recorder input to get the levels where I wanted them from the 302--this was the recommendation I got from Sound Devices, has worked great w/ SD, Tascam, Zoom etc etc machines--no diff in audio quality at all. Save your Ys for feeding 2 cameras.

phil p

[John Blankenship]

If you're using a Y cable and the inputs to the recorder are not balanced -- or are not properly balanced -- they could compromise the signal to the camera.

Use the main outputs to feed the camera and the tape outputs to feed the recorder -- just like you wanted -- and be a happy camper.

[Rick Reineke]

Using the Tape-out with a DR-40 or 100mkII, it may be difficult to get adequate levels using the XLR input since there's a level mismatch -15dB > +4dB (usually no problem for back-up though) In that case I'll use a 1/8" input if the recorder has one, (the DR-40 does not) or use a recorder that does. I carry an H2 around, since it's small and makes a good low cost back-up for the other low cost back-up.

[OmahaAudio]

Thanks to all for the comments and advice.

[jrd456]

The tape out is for prosumer and consumer recorders -----you should use that. Y cables can cause load problems potentially and distortion.With the 302 mixer it probably won't be a problem but it's a bad habit to get into.

J.D.