Toy Robot Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Scenario: You arrive to location ready to work after having negotiated a deal for X dollars with X equipment. When you arrive, the producer says, "Oh, and by the way we have two more lavs for you. Here they are." And then proceeds to hand you some ancient crap he expects you to use (and expects it to sound as good as your pro gear). What do you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gilbert Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Tell him to stick them up his ........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Andrews Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 I would say "thanks" and put it with the rest of the backup gear. If he asks why it's not in use later simply say "i'll use it if the situation favours it, right now it doesn't". If he wants more details you can always make up something he won't understand, such as "the frequency response of your lav extenuates the room modes which causes masking issues with the other microphones in use, for now i'm better off using my kit". ~Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Well, your rate does not include equipment, and if they supply additional equipment, that does not affect your rental. (Think about a circumstance where the production requires additional wireless -that you do not have- so they agree to rent them for you. " What do you do? " the best I can .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Quinn Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 I am with Mike on this good sense and moderation is the order of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesper Magnusson Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Was there additional people that wasn't included before, and they therefore thought you might need them? Otherwise, they may have just had them lying around and thought you might be able to use them. Say thanks and use it as a backup if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gilbert Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 I would say "thanks" and put it with the rest of the backup gear. If he asks why it's not in use later simply say "i'll use it if the situation favours it, right now it doesn't". If he wants more details you can always make up something he won't understand, such as "the frequency response of your lav extenuates the room modes which causes masking issues with the other microphones in use, for now i'm better off using my kit". ~Mark. Seriously Mark, just tell him to shove them, the day will go a lot better when you've asserted yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrider Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Accept them and say "thanks". After the shoot is over, tell them the next time they anticipate using additional wireless, please consult with you first. Tell them it is a frequency coordination issue, a very legitimate concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cujo Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 I like Mark's answer.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordi Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 What would be your answer for gigs that insist on providing the gear, and don't get enough / proper gear for the setups they will be having? Geniuses on a recent project rented just a single boom mic, a short shotgun... with a full-size zep and no windjammer. Then they kept asking me over the course of the day (where they had previously stated they wanted everything wireless) why I wasn't using the boom on VERY wide outdoor shots with lots of hard surfaces and wind. Full disclosure: They DID also rent wireless for the talent... One less than was needed for both the number of talent, and number of desired camera channels. I had an extra of my own that was able to solve one of those deficiencies: On the talent. For the questions about the boom, I tried Mark's polite answer of "It is not technically advantageous for this shot" and only got a dumb look in reply, and the same question 30 seconds later from another person who was within earshot of the first time I answered the question. They continued asking in COMPLETELY improper shots... Then when I FINALLY had an occasion where the boom would be the only way to get good sound, they proceeded to run up to some random person (far away and always on the far side of a crowd in a tight space) and begin filming immediately.... And got pissed at me b/c I wasn't already there with the camera guy who didn't signal in any way that he was moving to the new person. Oh, the best part? Each of these people that they wanted to interview - was standing underneath a high-flow exhaust hood which was running louder than the fan on a RED EPIC. Other than shoving the useless boom up the producer's ass, any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor The Mixer Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Great answer Geordi! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izen Ears Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 Alex the Toy Robot - just grin and get through the day, and try to get the best sound you can. If I were in a good mood I might have said something like "Aw I forgot my own birthday thanks!" or "Why does it suddenly feel like Christmas around here!" or "Thanks you really, really shouldn't of!" In a more serious mood I'd a said "Why do I need this?" Geordi / Jim - that is insane. If they really demonstrate that they just don't get it, you can't really explain it any better way than "It won't sound good." and let it live at that. Dan Izen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Steigerwald Posted May 19, 2012 Report Share Posted May 19, 2012 "Hey, thanks! I brought you some pens." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cujo Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 What would be your answer for gigs that insist on providing the gear, and don't get enough / proper gear for the setups they will be having? The best answer I have heard to date from a well known mixer when production comes up with a case of idiocy is "Oh. (pause) That's unfortunate for you." . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Aitken Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 The best answer I have heard to date from a well known mixer when production comes up with a case of idiocy is "Oh. (pause) That's unfortunate for you." . . that is the best thing i've read all day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 Geniuses on a recent project rented just a single boom mic, a short shotgun... with a full-size zep and no windjammer. Then they kept asking me over the course of the day (where they had previously stated they wanted everything wireless) why I wasn't using the boom on VERY wide outdoor shots with lots of hard surfaces and wind. In a perfect world, I would stop after the second time they bothered me and say, "I need a short meeting with the producer and director." I'd tactfully explain my position -- they hired me for my expertise, and they have to trust my judgement 100% on what type of microphone to use in a given situation -- and then see if it'll sink in. It's very possible that they're used to working with people at a far lower experience level, and have no clue that just maybe, you might know a lot more than they do. Me personally, I have no problem rolling on a boom mike 100% of the time at least on an iso, regardless of noise considerations or position, assuming I have a decent boom op. Isos made a lot of these points moot. I decide what gets on the mix track, but one hopes they'll use reasonable judgement for the final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordi Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 Marc, I really hope we get to work together on a project someday - I can see us working great with each other, that is exactly how I would run it as well. Unfortunately, this one had only a 552 that they provided, and when they asked for isos (b/c of lack of equipment and cables) all I had to supplement was my Zoom h4n. I was able to get it to work for routing, sort-of... But there just wasn't any way to fully isolate that boom from the rest b/c of the cabling I had that day. Oh well... I got one day of "reality TV" experience, and that showed me that unless I am working with my own kit with my own ISO tracks... I need my sanity more than I need that tiny amount of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted May 20, 2012 Report Share Posted May 20, 2012 " What would be your answer for gigs that insist on providing the gear, and don't get enough / proper gear for the setups they will be having? " absolutely non-discounted full daily rental for anything of my own I need (am asked!) to provide from the JIC stuff I brought, even if it is for just one shot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Oh well... I got one day of "reality TV" experience, and that showed me that unless I am working with my own kit with my own ISO tracks... I need my sanity more than I need that tiny amount of money. I have occasionally lost work because of insisting that I supply the gear, citing the need for backups and "unexpected equipment." I make this clear in my initial email contacts with new clients, and also the reality that (in the real world) chances are I have better gear than they do anyway. All we can do is educate these producers and move along as best we can. I concede that there are some fairly big projects out there (particularly in the reality show business) where the producers may actually have already invested in some sophisticated setups and just want a warm body there to wire it all up, set levels, and press record. So there are always exceptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 The diff is in how committed, really, they were to getting their sound package together and what sort of job is being done. On a big TV job (esp involving a truck), or even a big reality gig, they might have spent quite a bit of time and money with consultants and vendors putting their gear together, and may have done some tests even. Otherwise, I explain that the experience and thought I've put into assembling my package and prepping it for that specific job is one of the factors that makes me good (and fast) enough that they wanted to hire me in the first place. Camera usually achieves this by having a prep day, we generally do this on our own, but it has to be done one way or another, or the production will suffer. There are producers out there who for whatever reason bought their own small package and want only to hire people to use it--I don't end up working for them, and usually recommend that they find a newbie who has no gear and who will devote the time to learning and prepping theirs. In no case is just showing up and hoping the gear will work while you scramble to find all the pieces a good idea. phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordi Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 In no case is just showing up and hoping the gear will work while you scramble to find all the pieces a good idea. phil p This...Is a very good lesson for any newbies to learn. It is also a tough lesson for me to re-learn, having made the mistake of going on that reality TV gig while 90% of my gear was on rent on another job. I made the assumption (and got every result from it) that because they were a network and said they were providing gear... That I would be given more than just the single piece of named gear they told me about and two strings of tie-line to connect it all together. They didn't even have their own gaff tape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewFreedAudio Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 This...Is a very good lesson for any newbies to learn. It is also a tough lesson for me to re-learn, having made the mistake of going on that reality TV gig while 90% of my gear was on rent on another job. I made the assumption (and got every result from it) that because they were a network and said they were providing gear... That I would be given more than just the single piece of named gear they told me about and two strings of tie-line to connect it all together. They didn't even have their own gaff tape. If they are adament about providing their own gear in spite of wise advice to the contrary then they get what they pay for. However, look at it from their perspective, they know what is provided and what the result will be. I've heard of many a sound mixer showing up to a gig with equipment that wasn't what they said they had. Some people are shady enough to say "yeah, I have XYZ gear" but in reality they don't; they only are saying that to get the gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toy Robot Posted May 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Shady is an understatement. I can't imagine doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 " because they were a network " "they" are not a network... they are a production company. perhaps the show was on a network..?? " they know what is provided and what the result will be. " they know what is provided and what the result might, or might not be. some production companies, like many sound mixers, want to own equipment; most believe they make money by using equipment, not by owning it, and are happy to rent ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Kittappa Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 I really don't like jobs where I am asked to use gear that has been provided rather than my own as I know exactly how my gear works, but I guess some companies have decided to save money by owning equipment and not paying rental for gear ever. I did however learn the hard way to bring my own audio harness for ENG type jobs for my own comfort (and to not forget to bring the bottom carabinas). After a day running around with heavy Portabrace slung over my shoulder I made a mental note never to put myself in that position again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.