ChrisH Posted May 26, 2012 Report Share Posted May 26, 2012 I am building my cart and after seeing many people using the yamaha 0196vi as their front end I have decided to use the Midas Venice F as Midas offers far superior audio products to Yamaha and far superior features. Primarily because I like Midas Preamps and because I like the idea of firewire and analog direct outs instead of USB as in the o196vi. My question relates to powering these AC behemoths. I will of course be running on 12 volt DC cart power from my Meon. Is there an efficient way to convert DC to AC for the mixer? I would think that the midas console actually uses DC power internally and converts the AC input to DCinternally. Is there a way to bypass its AC-DC converter and go straight in as DC? Seems silly to convert power twice, that being said does this have any drawbacks (as in are power inverters efficient?). How have other mixers solved this problem when using gear that is designed to be plugged to AC. I have already asked the guys at Midas about it but hoping for some insight from you guys too. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted May 26, 2012 Report Share Posted May 26, 2012 Converting the Midas to DC operation would be very expensive, and might not be possible. Someone to ask about this might be Forrest at Trew/Coffey's service dept--he used to have his own business doing DC conversions of AC powered mixers (among many other mods). For running the stock mixer, the answer is either a sine-wave invertor and some honkin' batteries (as many here have done for their Yamaha consoles)--you should be able to search the forum for those threads--or your own mini-generator (Honda etc). My guess is that you might end up with both if you work often enough where there really is no AC power available to you. phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lightstone, CAS Posted May 26, 2012 Report Share Posted May 26, 2012 Chris, I'm interested in what you will be recording on, DAW, HD recorder and your routing? What version of the Midas F, the F16, F24? The Midas F16 is 51.8lbs and that is heavier than the Yamaha 01V96 (not that they are lightweights at 33lbs!). The Midas is about twice as expensive as the Yamaha. Not knocking your choice but the Yamaha is considered a rather large production console, the Midas is even larger. Of course us Yamaha users have no complaints on it's size, it's the features; the number of inputs and routing we appreciate. Phil, has it right, the majority of us Yamaha users have inverters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisH Posted May 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2012 $2700 for VeniceF 16R, yes its large, but Midas Preamps and Firewire direct outs parallel to analog direct outs seems worth the few hundred bucks and couple of pounds. I will be running a paralel boom recorder rig on my cart so the firewire direct outs will go to a macBook pro and eventually two lectro venues will feed it while it also feeds a 788t running in parallel to the macbook pro. Inverter it is then Ill post pictures and progress on the build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirror Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 Had my Yamaha come back from the factory for fader replacement (sent it to them in the original box) and on the outside of the box was written 41 pounds. I'm pretty sure it converts AC to DC internally. The main problem converting it to run on external DC is that these dang digital boards have to boot up in a particular sequence which isn't easy to work out. It was such a PIA to convert that Forrest vowed never to do it again; and he's a smart guy. I ended up getting a 70 pound (90 amph) SLA battery and an inverter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Weaver Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 I love my 01V96 BTW. Where are you guys getting your colored fader knobs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBoisseau Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 I'm trying to get my 01V96i working on my cart. I tried a small inverter,but it generated a lot of noise. Can someone recommend a "quite" inverter that does not induce noice into the signal path? Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 There are lots of people doing this, powering their Yamahas, and there are a number of threads on this site (Search?, sorry) and on Phil Palmer's Yamaha group. You're going to have to do some sort of search, I'm all DC on my cart so I have no personal experience with the inverter/battery setup for AC powered gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBoisseau Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 Thanks Jeff. That looks to be a good resourse. Oddly enough however there appears to me more information here on JW Sound (on various threads) regarding battery power and inverters for the 01V than on Phil Palmer's site. So, I'm wondering if I a Samlex 150 WATT Pure sine wave inverter would be enough for the 01V96i? All the posts I've found seem to indicate that people are using a 300w inverter or higher, but it's not clear whether a 150w would be sufficient. The 01V96i is rated at 90w. Does anyone know of a large national "chain" store that sells the Samlex 150W / 300W pure sine wave inverters? I'd like to be able to easily return the unit if it is not adequate. Tom Also see: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 RE: Converting an AC powered mixer to DC power Typically, it's not just a matter of bypassing the AC to DC circuits and hooking up to a simple 12v DC rail. There's DC and then there's DC. With most of the analog circuitry you'll encounter in mixers, there are both plus and minus DC busses. These are often in the plus and minus 15v to plus and minus 18v range (higher voltages allow more signal headroom). So, if you're externally feeding a mixer +12v, that voltage has to not only be boosted higher, but must generate voltages of two different polarities. Some mixers, especially digital ones, would also have other values of voltage internally (such as 5v for the logic circuitry) which typically require separate, isolated DC voltage rails. All of these voltages must be properly regulated. Not only is it necessary to meet all those requirements, but it must be done in such a way that the power you're furnishing to each of these voltage rails is clean and doesn't introduce any noise or other undesirable artifacts. ...then, there's the hard part. <g> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 Thanks Jeff. That looks to be a good resourse. Oddly enough however there appears to me more information here on JW Sound (on various threads) regarding battery power and inverters for the 01V than on Phil Palmer's site. Tom I think the reason you don't find discussions on Phil's site about powering is because most of those on that forum, I believe, have already sorted out the primary issue of powering the thing. I think the inverter you are suggesting is not what anyone else is using. From my memory, most everyone is using inverters from Xantrex with higher capacity than the Samlex you suggest. At some point, Richard Lightstone may chime in here, or not, since I know he has worked out a very stable and successful powering scheme for his Yamaha using Xantrex inverter product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 +1 Xantrex philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 While I have no experience powering a Yamaha, I believe most Yamaha users use Xantrex system because they have other AC requirements. When I powered my AC Mackie, I used Exeltech pure sine wave (125w). My research indicated inverters are their most efficient running at about 75% capacity. The 125W was the smallest pure sine I could find. I was ONLY powering the Mackie on the inverter. Everything else was DC. The inverter and DC gear was plugged into PSC Powermax Ultra. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 I had some issues with the first pure sine wave inverter. I tried every suggestion to kill the terrible noise on it, and eventually I broke down and bought a brand that other people here were having good luck with (I forget offhand what it is). That fixed everything, though it chewed through my Optima blue top quicker than I expected. I eventually switched up my cart and got a Mix-12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Palmer Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 Hello guys. Here's a link to a quick answer... http://o1v96psug.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=65 I'm using a Samlex 300 watt. Other's are using the Xantrex. A 150 watt inverter is pretty light for the load. PWP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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