Mike Matthews Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 So I just got hired for a one day shoot next Thursday. They will be using a Red Scarlet and they want to record to the camera. In looking at the manual, it appears that the Scarlet only takes mic level 3.5mm unbalanced inputs. Is that right? Can anyone share their experiences with me in recording directly to the Scarlet? Thanks, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristotle_kumpis Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Mike, there is a long thread in this section that talks all about this. That should help you out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 The Scarlet is not ready to be used as the single sound recording source, and probably never will be. Record double system, send a scratch track (or hop) to the camera so there's every chance it will get recorded. The input on the scarlet is unbalanced or balanced MIC level only. There's plenty of other reading on the audio and timecode capabilities (or lack thereof) of this camera on this site, just search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Matthews Posted May 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Wow, I just did and read some pretty scary stuff. Looks like I need about a -40 db pad and some XLR to 3.5mm cables for just a scratch track. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Matthews Posted May 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Well, I just spoke with the producer about some of the Scarlet audio issues I am reading about on this board and the reduser board. They may actually decide to use a different camera for the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Well, I just spoke with the producer about some of the Scarlet audio issues I am reading about on this board and the reduser board. They may actually decide to use a different camera for the job. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Well, I just spoke with the producer about some of the Scarlet audio issues I am reading about on this board and the reduser board. They may actually decide to use a different camera for the job. The Scarlet is a fine camera, it's audio side it lacking, but it produces beautiful video. If your producer is comfortable syncing sound (it can be automated using products like PluralEyes, or a timecode stamp) then there is no reason to change camera. If you have a decent mixer that can output mic level (or a -40dB pad as you mentioned) you can easily send a scratch track. The rental house SHOULD provide you with a breakout from the scarlet to XLR's. Once you send a mic level to that, you're done. It's then up to the Scarlet if it wants to record the audio properly or not - hence, record a backup. Do not treat the Scarlet as your main audio recording media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 All good advice. I would agree that the Scarlet is actually not a bad camera at all, and I would also suggest that it's easier for the post department to sync up double-system sound if the Scarlet is jammed to a timecode box (like a Lockit or SB-T). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Matthews Posted June 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Basically, that's what I told him, to treat the audio recorded on a Scarlet as a scratch track and I would record double system. My mixer is a 442 and I can send mic level to the Scarlet, no problem but I have a tascam DR-680 so no time code. I did mention Plural Eyes to him because I have used it and was pretty happy being able to easily sync a live band performance with video from multiple 7D's, but . We also discussed the possibility of actually using a slate! I also told him it was perfectly understandable to me if he would prefer finding someone else with a timecode capable recorder. Whatever they decide, I'll do my best to get the audio recorded as well as possible on the Scarlet as a scratch track and record second system. Thanks for the great advice and I apologize for posting something that had already been so well discussed. I honestly completely panicked when I downloaded the manual yesterday and read about the 3.5 mic level inputs. I called Red first and talked to their tech support and panicked even more when he confirmed it! Then I posted before doing any research, my bad. Thanks, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 Yes, Red's official advice I believe is "to pad down the inputs." No line level available. They did just activate phantom power in the 3.5mm audio inputs. Be sure to turn the Scarlet limiters off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Matthews Posted June 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Ah yes, I need to remember the limiters as well. Thanks Marc, appreciate the timely and useful advice. Yes, Red's official advice I believe is "to pad down the inputs." No line level available. They did just activate phantom power in the 3.5mm audio inputs. Be sure to turn the Scarlet limiters off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainier Davenport Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Well, I just spoke with the producer about some of the Scarlet audio issues I am reading about on this board and the reduser board. They may actually decide to use a different camera for the job. When appropriate I always encourage Producers to use other cameras. I suggest the Alexa most times as a replacement for anything RED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisnewton Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 We've been using a Scarlet for the past couple of months. Last block was a nightmare with lots of audio (and many other) problems. I send a scratch track to the camera via Senn. G2. This round things are much better. newest firmware on camera. I am using a lower, mic level output to feed the Scarlet (don't remember settings right now). good for a scratch track. Undefeatable limiter on camera is a pain-in-the-ass. We are using Ambient Clockit synched to my 744T. Rock solid. Also using TC slate with the clap (i know, I know it should see a doctor). Chris Newton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Matthews Posted June 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Well, I'll let you know how it goes after Thursday. They are using the Scarlet, which is fine with me. I just wanted to let them know about potential audio issues and I did. They did get an A-box so I will send it mic level from my 442. Marc, should the MODE be set to balanced or unbalanced? Any other menu items to be concerned with? Chris, it looks like you can defeat the limiter by unchecking the limiter menu item. Settings->Audio/Video->Audio Channels... There is a check-box available for enabling/disabling the limiter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Well, I'll let you know how it goes after Thursday. They are using the Scarlet, which is fine with me. I just wanted to let them know about potential audio issues and I did. They did get an A-box so I will send it mic level from my 442. Marc, should the MODE be set to balanced or unbalanced? Any other menu items to be concerned with? Chris, it looks like you can defeat the limiter by unchecking the limiter menu item. Settings->Audio/Video->Audio Channels... There is a check-box available for enabling/disabling the limiter Balanced or unbalanced setting depends on what you're sending the signal from. If from a Senn G2/3 with the proper UB cable then it's UB. If from your 442 on a hardline to a 3.5 mmTRS wired BAL then that's the setting. A balanced output can easily become unbalanced by using an UB wired cable. For an UB cable: XLR to 3.5mm trs is wired tip to XLR pin 2, pins 1 & 3 in the XLR go to the shield/ground in the 3.5mm trs. For a balanced xlr to 3.5mm trs it's xlr pins: xlr 1................3.5 sleeve xlr 2........................tip xlr 3.......................ring Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Matthews Posted June 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 That makes total sense, thanks Eric. I thought I had read somewhere that unbalanced cables did not work on the Scarlet which was why I was wondering why there was even a choice. Anyway, we'll see how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisnewton Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Mike, last time the camera assist checked (on the firmware we have), the checkbox for limiter was still not enabled. Scarlet still doesn't appear to allow audio playback on camera either. SDI embedded audio works E-E, but not on playback. These features may be enabled on latest firmware, but we haven't bothered to check. No need in our workflow. DIT confirms scratch track audio on ingest to computer. We are using the Wooden Box audio interface by the way. It works fine. TC is input to camera via Lemo 5pin to Lemo 4pin custom cable. Don't have the Red branded cable set. Note: the 4 pin Lemo connection on camera is only an input, there is no TC output from the camera. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Matthews Posted June 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 Well, that actually went pretty well. The DP had a Wooden Camera A-box and the latest version of the firmware which appeared to allow limiters to be disabled. We unchecked them, hopefully it worked, but hard to say as there was no audio playback. What I heard in the headphone return sounded all right and second system sounded great. Thanks to everyone for giving me the knowledge needed to know what to expect and to ask intelligent questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toy Robot Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 On set now with a Scarlet. Last minute call yesterday. When I found out it was a Scarlet shoot I informed the producer it was safest to treat this like a film camera and record dual system. Particularly since we have exactly 1 hour with talent and no more. I warned producer of known errors and required A-Box or equivalent if they decided to try it anyway and you know what she did? She took my advice! She immediately called and let post know to expect sync and they said no problem, thanks for the heads up. What a good producer. Hire people who know what they are doing and then actually take their advice. Sweet. As a side note, when I arrived on set the camera operator and I confirmed tech specs and when I informed him of my intent to record dual system he said, "I had my first experience yesterday running sound to this camera and it did not go well. You're doing the right thing recording separately." Feels good to work with people who are above brand name debates. The equipment either works or it doesn't, and when it doesn't, the professionals simply find a way to get the job done, not lecture you on why RED is 'still the best...' A very good day indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 As a side note, when I arrived on set the camera operator and I confirmed tech specs and when I informed him of my intent to record dual system he said, "I had my first experience yesterday running sound to this camera and it did not go well. You're doing the right thing recording separately." I wish more people would understand this. I honestly believe this is true for all cameras. Recording direct is dicey at best, and your subject to the whims, carelessness, and inattention of the camera op (who are already under great pressure to frame, focus, expose, and shoot the picture). I'm much more comfortable only sending the camera reference sound for syncing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep owl Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 I wish more people would understand this. I honestly believe this is true for all cameras. Recording direct is dicey at best, and your subject to the whims, carelessness, and inattention of the camera op (who are already under great pressure to frame, focus, expose, and shoot the picture). I'm much more comfortable only sending the camera reference sound for syncing. +1 on that. I always tell production that I'm sending a reference signal to camera, unless I can hard-wire XLR to it and there's only one talent. Even then, I'm recording guaranteed tracks and camera is recording something that 'should' be completely usable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 " I always tell production that... " ... and then they do what they want to. (sigh) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Doherty Sound Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 For a simple scratch track to the scarlet? Can I just solder a 3.5mm TRS onto an XLR cable, and then just use a condenser mic? The producer told me he doesn't care about quality, they just want audio to assist with sync. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 " Can I just solder a 3.5mm TRS onto an XLR cable, and then just use a condenser mic? " certainly, and it might even work --it depends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 For a simple scratch track to the scarlet? Can I just solder a 3.5mm TRS onto an XLR cable, and then just use a condenser mic? The producer told me he doesn't care about quality, they just want audio to assist with sync. No 48v phantom on the Scarlet. How are you going to power the condenser mic if it doesn't have an internal battery? Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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