Hidden lavs for run-and-go-style shoots?

[Nima]

There lies the crux of your problem. You have never even seen anyone do the job the you want to do. You are a very nice person and I applaud you for your spirit, enthusiasm and good nature. But you are so green that you don't even know what you don't know yet. You want to skip all the steps and jump to the end and say " I'm a mixer". In reality you have no business doing what you're doing. You are like soooo many that buy gear and proclaim that you are a mixer. To do your job right you need to work from the bottom up. Work for others and learn. You have not paid your dues and until you do that you don't deserve the knowledge that others have spent years learning. You are cheating yourself and others that you work for.

This may seem like a personal attack but it's not. It's the best advice you've gotten in this thread so far. Go work for someone else first and learn/earn your way to a career.

A friend,

Mirror

There's nothing harsh/attacking in that at all, actually. You're totally right. And I have never called myself a mixer. And until the day I have completed a period of working under veterans, I probably never will. And even when that day comes, I'll call myself an amateur mixer. I remember this one shoot, which were going to be shot with Red... I was available, but I bailed out. Instead I was going to seek someone else and ask them if in exchange I could shadow them. However, the shoot was unpaid... and then they switched to DSLRs... and since I had already declined, they ended up finding someone else. I always do tell people I have limited experience. I don't seek out jobs. I just don't turn them down, if I'm available on a particular date. You're totally right that I need to gain experience under a veteran. I do have a few problems, leading to limited free time, which in turn is the biggest problem when I want to work for someone else consistently. However, since I manage to do a shoot here and there, maybe I could find someone who wouldn't mind having me on their sound crew on the dates I'm not working. Maybe, I can even try to shadow the mixers for the organization I already work for. If that works, that'd be ideal! I'll investigate. Thanks for that reminder. I think I got so caught up trying to make shoots sound good, that I forgot the most essential part, and as a result I have delayed my learning further. Working my way up involves working for someone else. You're totally right. And again, I truly appreciate your words. Thanks!

By the way, if anyone here wouldn't mind an extra pair of apprentice-hands in Toronto, I would love to refer to you whenever I come across shoots that require experienced mixers, and have budgets that reflect that. (Unless you're interested in the lower-budget/unpaid stuff as well, but I don't think the economy is quite that bad yet). Anyways, one never knows (I'm just being really hopeful here)

Edited June 3, 2012 by Nima Shams

[Nima]

Didn't mean to divert from the topic there, anyways, Mirror, thanks! I'll make sure to go hunt for veterans in Toronto. Can't edit the other post from my phone, that's why I'm posting a new one.

[johnpaul215]

If you get a chance to boom, utility or even intern with a sound team, you will pick up a lot. If possible working for a few people will teach you an array of techniques. In the meantime, you are doing it right. Reading, asking questions and practicing. Best of luck!

As for waterproof mics.... I bought my first Lectrosonics MM400 with an EMW for a horror film with the potential for tons of blood. I was told to expect thick red colored syrup to red water spray. I went into it with the waterproof lav, and Octava MK012 and some extra foam for the mic. Oh, and lots of baby wipes to keep my boom pole clean. The gear made it through unscathed. We were definitely over prepared, but I would rather be that way then to freak out about wrecking kit. About a year later I showed up on a corporate video Christmas video shoot that involved a rain bar. The DP (that brought me on) said "yeah, a rain bar ..we'll told the client we will just have to pull the mic and just ADR that later". Everyone was blown away when I used the MM400 and said "waterproof, just go for it". I didn't expect to use it on a corporate shoot either, but it happens.

[soundslikejustin]

Boob tape! Never heard of that! I'll look into that as well!

The more PC name for it (that I couldn't remember when writing originally) is "Special Occasion Tape"

here it is on Ebay, for $6.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hollywood-Special-Occasion-Fashion-Tape-30-Pieces-Misc-/221025527133#vi-content

[sounddguy]

Not mentioned is the fact in some situations, there is no answer. I did a corporate shoot the other day where

the company opened a brand new stiff uniform shirt. After several attempts I realized it was not the mic

placement but the fabric itself we were hearing. No they wouldn't allow treating the shirt, it had to be

their pristine condition. Can you say boom?

[Martin Kittappa]

I had that too on a series of Microsoft commercials- Starchy shirts which they wouldn't treat in order to keep the bright popping colors, that along with the whole set being made of clear perspex. 90% of the commercials were shot so wide to see the whole set, ceiling, sides and floor so even the boom wasn't great. Even the table on which the product was set on was clear perspex. Managed to hide a couple mics behind some of the props and boomed from as close as I could get (which was quite far away) with a Sennheiser 8070. I also asked for wild lines as soon as each segment was shot. Sometimes it seems that all the elements are set against you ,and you just have to improvise as best you can. Now if only they thought to include sound in the preproduction discussions- oh well one can dream!

[atheisticmystic]

If you don't have the time and/or inclination to perform some variation of <HAT>...

Lav on Baseball Cap

LAV’ing a Holy Father

Radiomics on Pregnant Ladies

"Dark Art" (Hiding lavaliers) etiquette question

Lav mic placement advice

"actual combat" audio

Noisy Shirt !

Hiding mics in Tuxedos

Not happy with the micbra that I got from the ramps party.

Lav in flight suit

MIC LAV BRA

Avoiding the lavalier of getting wet

Lav-Bullet MM400 Adapter

New toys from K-Tek

Rode Vampire clip

page__p__83194__hl__lavalier__fromsearch__1&do=embed#entry83194' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>

Back to School with Rich Topham Jr.

Laving down tight pants

Introducing the Lav-Rod

hairy chests and when lavaliers are required

Medical Shows: the Deadly Stethoscope

Hiding in plain sight...

A little silk tie help, please.

Introducing the Lav-Bullet

Lav It Up! Effectively Mic Up Your Talent by Bryant Falk

Bra Microphone Etiquette

Clothing noise a real issue when concealing mics

Rode Vampire clip

Would you please stay on!!!

Hiding lav Mics during a actual surgery

Miking talent on a motorcycle

[cinetj]

If you don't have the time and/or inclination to perform some variation of <HAT>...

Lav on Baseball Cap

LAV’ing a Holy Father

Radiomics on Pregnant Ladies

"Dark Art" (Hiding lavaliers) etiquette question

Lav mic placement advice

"actual combat" audio

Noisy Shirt !

Hiding mics in Tuxedos

Not happy with the micbra that I got from the ramps party.

Lav in flight suit

MIC LAV BRA

Avoiding the lavalier of getting wet

Lav-Bullet MM400 Adapter

New toys from K-Tek

Rode Vampire clip

page__p__83194__hl__lavalier__fromsearch__1&do=embed#entry83194' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>

Back to School with Rich Topham Jr.

Laving down tight pants

Introducing the Lav-Rod

hairy chests and when lavaliers are required

Medical Shows: the Deadly Stethoscope

Hiding in plain sight...

A little silk tie help, please.

Introducing the Lav-Bullet

Lav It Up! Effectively Mic Up Your Talent by Bryant Falk

Bra Microphone Etiquette

Clothing noise a real issue when concealing mics

Rode Vampire clip

Would you please stay on!!!

Hiding lav Mics during a actual surgery

Miking talent on a motorcycle

Great compilation work! I'm bookmarking this right now! Thanks!

[atheisticmystic]

Thanks go to the hard work of David Waelder.

Best

[Marc Wielage]

One could write a pretty good 20,000+ word essay just on the challenges and solutions of wireless microphone philosophy, mounting, use, and troubleshooting!

Steven, you and I could contribute a section on how to mike people wearing funny animal outfits!

[atheisticmystic]

Lol...We could do that Marc!

I used your Danny Trejo collar trick on a very thin T-Shirt with my Sankens this past week to great effect...thanks again for that!

Best,

[Robert Li]

lol, great thread and discussion.

me > countryman mics (b6 when i can get them emw's mostly) + rycote stickies and undercovers. works nearly everytime, and it seriously speedy now.

anyway, the complexities of laving someone are simply enormous, usually, for things like docos, if time is an issue (and I have rocked up to docos before where the call time was 30 minutes into shooting because they didnt give me a proper call sheet and thought, hey save money by bringing him in after cutaways... cheapskates...) I usually tell them this:

1. give me time and I will give you clean sound

2. dont give me time and you will see the mic but get clean sound

3. dont give me time and I will leave you with shitty rustly sound

Also, in situations where there is either no wardrobe dept or noone from wardrobe was exprienced enough to tell you, sometimes... if the material you're working with is just useless... it literally is useless. You will just have to get coverage from other sources.

Also, dont let anyone tell you that bugging someone up is a simple task and that you have 2 minutes to do it, or they send some hickey who knows nothing to do it. It ends up bad for everyone, respect that process and the people who know how to do it. It is not trivial. Also, take care of your mics, I've had too many in the past broken by talent or other crew members because they've been either too careless or too rushed to take care, it maybe the talents body, but it's your mic, and mics dont grow back hair or heal themselves.

[Jon Gilbert]

I usually tell them this:

1. give me time and I will give you clean sound

2. dont give me time and you will see the mic but get clean sound

3. dont give me time and I will leave you with shitty rustly sound

And you still get hired?

I say 'Who needs micing?' Then go and do it, quickly and well.

[chris_bollard]

Hey Robert

Just remember that it's not all about you, or any other sound dude, it's about the project and getting it done to the best of your abilities.

[Robert Li]

yeah i know i always give every project my best but 30 seconds to wire someone up is not something i can usually accomplish well, I had a specific job i did a couple months back in mind that i was unhappy with the quality of the audio i got out of one of the mics. the other one was fine and thank god it was all covered on boom.

[Jon Gilbert]

This week I've been working on a gardening show with 3 presenters and various additional contributors, 30 seconds to a minute is all you get for wiring the additional people before people start getting fidgety, it's really not hard to do a good job in that time, Joe's or Stickies, plus Hushlavs or RM11s, are all you need, plus a lot of practice of course. I, and most people on here can work out the best spot for a lav in a few seconds, as they walk up to the person needing wiring. If you can't do that Robert, time to practice!

[Robert Li]

thanks jon, will do, stickies (+undercover) are what i normally use as well, sometimes hush lavs if there is room where i want to put them, I'm a bit newer at this than perhaps most people on here, still can get a good job done in about 2 minutes including mic test etc (i dont count it as being done until u know u have got a clean feed). I think thats not too bad. But i mean, for newer people i think its best to learn off someone rather than trial and error, because there have been so many things I have learnt on set that i didnt even think to try by myself, this is going back to the original poster.

Maybe you dont agree with me, thats ok, but i tend to dislike being walked over, so if someone gets angry at me for not pre-emptively wiring someone up I've only noticed in the last 10 seconds then I tend to get a bit narky. Either way, just acknowledging the great info being posted on this thread and trying to impart some of my, if somewhat biased, experiences. I think it's a case of readers choice.

[Jon Gilbert]

Don't agree with you about what?

[Robert Li]

And you still get hired?

I say 'Who needs micing?' Then go and do it, quickly and well.

previous post

[Jon Gilbert]

Rehashing the 'Quick Cheap Fast' line in a clumsy way will only serve to make you sound precious and maybe even incompetent to your clients, I would never suggest I'd give them 'Shitty rustly sound' That isn't an option, I'll do it properly, that's the only way to do it. You seem to infer that I'm happy to be 'walked over' not sure what gives you that idea, anyone who's worked with me will tell you the opposite is true.

Anyhoo, no sense bickering, my point merely was, it is possible to mic someone competently and quickly, if you can't do it, that's your problem, not mine.

[Robert Li]

all i can say is i dont normally say it that bluntly except on forums, but ill take that advice and refrain from saying it in the future, i wasnt trying to infer, but i can see that you aren't of being walked over either, and i suppose i can only practice to get faster. Like you said no point bickering, and like my old lecturer used to say "do better" (that was his response to basically every question).

[Jon Gilbert]

Do better I like it!

[Robert Li]

haha yeah its a good one. take it and use it well

[Martin Kittappa]

90% of the time I find a couple of simple fast techniques work-on the sternum between the pec muscles on the skin- on the thick rim of a t-shirt, or between the buttons of a loose shirt are fine- It's the 10% of times that may be more challenging- As soon as I see talent walking towards me I make plan by gauging the wardrobe (will I need a thigh pack, leg pack, how will the cable run out of sight etc). Before I attempt to mic, I'll check the material with my finger to see how stiff, silky or smooth the wardrobe is. If it looks a little more complicated I'll politely smile and notify the talent (in earshot of the AD, producer etc) that the wardrobe is a little challenging. I'll still work quickly, but at least they know I may need a few extra seconds to set it right. There are times when I need to go in for second attempt after the rehearsal or first take- mostly I find productions are happy to let you adjust something because they want what is best for their show. I have my plan b ready so I can adjust quickly and get out of the way.

I remember one time having to hide a mic pack inside the bra of cute actress, she was very cool about it because I explained exactly what needed to be done. Afterwards she smiled and said 'Next time can you please take me out to dinner first!'

Sometimes you have to be a little creative but a good professional attitude will usually buy you the extra seconds you need to get the job done well.

[BVS]

Lady, I'm not looking at your breasts...I'm working out where I'm going to mic you..

BVS