TC logging for script dept.

[Philip Perkins]

Does anyone have a line on a piece of software (and hardware) that will allow me to capture LTC (as from a camcorder etc) on a current Mac laptop (via USB?), perhaps via a function key, and insert it in a database that also allows real time typing in of notes?  We used to do this, years ago, with a prgm called AutoLog that looked at the serial output of BetaCam decks (via an o40 Mac serial port)--this worked very well.  AutoLog has a website still but I haven't been able to raise anyone there.  Surely there is another app that does this....?

Philip Perkins

[cmgoodin]

Well,

Don't know of any Mac software. But perhaps with a PS2 to USB keyborad adaptor, you could use the Horita TC Wedge.

TCW-50 http://www.horita.com/ .  It will capture the TC or User Bits from an LTC stream and send it as keystrokes through your in-line connected keyborad.  Then you could build an excel spreadsheet and just hit the button to grab the TC from the Wedge.

Probably works better with a PC. But might work on the MAC with an adaptor.

---Courtney

[Guest Jeff Colon]

Although I have never used it for anything other than a master clock, a Deneke GR-1 has a serial port for printing out time code.  I have one I practically never use... if you can hack the serial interface to do what you need, I would consider parting with it for around 600,.maybeee...   ( I do have a tablet mouse circa 1994) with a serial to usb adaptor and freeware driver working on a mac 10.4.8 so it should be do-able...way over my head though.

Edit: there was also the wireless TC clipboard...it was called a "Script Boy" just a clipboard with a readout of code fed to it and a stop button for note taking.  Though, Not what your asking for, maybe a compromise ?

Jeff c

[Philip Perkins]

Although I have never used it for anything other than a master clock, a Deneke GR-1 has a serial port for printing out time code.  I have one I practically never use... if you can hack the serial interface to do what you need, I would consider parting with it for around 600,.maybeee...   ( I do have a tablet mouse circa 1994) with a serial to usb adaptor and freeware driver working on a mac 10.4.8 so it should be do-able...way over my head though.

Edit: there was also the wireless TC clipboard...it was called a "Script Boy" just a clipboard with a readout of code fed to it and a stop button for note taking.  Though, Not what your asking for, maybe a compromise ?

Jeff c

Thanks to both.  Aaach, we hate that Script Boy--fragile, breaks all the time etc.  The scripties want a computer solution, not a clipboard w/ a TC readout.  They want the TC to be entered automatically, so the few nanoseconds they have can be used for writing down shot info.  Seems right to me.  One solution I heard of today--get everyone on precise time-of-day, TC, and then the scripty can just grab 24 hr time from their own computer. Another reason to convince post away from record-run TC....

It seems strange to me that no one has built a program to do this.....

Philip Perkins

[cmgoodin]

Phillip,

I tried writing one years ago when Dencke came out with the GR-1.  I had a prototype working, but there were problems with the GR-1 and using its simple RS-232 interface.  I tried to get Mike to change some of the Print routines so it could spit out the TC via a remote trigger, but it never  got done. I still have GR-1 Serial # 001.  Horita has some logging software for the PC. (or did) not sure if it still exists.

What I would like to see is establishment of a Wireless metadata interchange protocol.  A standard that machine manufacturers could get behind so you could use the ubiquitous IP wireless protocol to exchange metadata like Scene and Take number, Time code, etc.

A WiFi metadata server could be setup up on the set and the script supervisor could be responsible for updating the Scene and Take number,  the time code could come from the server and be captured by the Slate, which would display the Scene and Take (electronically) and the Time code.  The Audio and or the Digital capture device for the image (or camera)  would also receive the same time code and scene and take info and automatically incorporate it into the metadata.  A wireless smart slate would be used for those cameras that can't use the metadata or don't have the wireless connection.  Since the information (including the Slate info) would all be coming from he same server, there would be no chance of them getting confused or out of sync with each other and we could not have to worry about trying to enter scene and take metadata into a machine without a keyboard, and get back to mixing the sound.

-----Courtney

[Jeff Wexler]

What I would like to see is establishment of a Wireless metadata interchange protocol.  A standard that machine manufacturers could get behind so you could use the ubiquitous IP wireless protocol to exchange metadata like Scene and Take number, Time code, etc.

A WiFi metadata server could be setup up on the set and the script supervisor could be responsible for updating the Scene and Take number,  the time code could come from the server and be captured by the Slate, which would display the Scene and Take (electronically) and the Time code.  The Audio and or the Digital capture device for the image (or camera)  would also receive the same time code and scene and take info and automatically incorporate it into the metadata.  A wireless smart slate would be used for those cameras that can't use the metadata or don't have the wireless connection.  Since the information (including the Slate info) would all be coming from he same server, there would be no chance of them getting confused or out of sync with each other and we could not have to worry about trying to enter scene and take metadata into a machine without a keyboard, and get back to mixing the sound.

-----Courtney

Courtney, you're dreaming --- but oh what a glorious dream! What you have proposed, that which we have all imagined in some form or another, would be wonderful --- the centralizing and standardizing of the ever more present and necessary metadata, with the necessary info coming from the proper places directly --- scene and take from script, TC from master timecode source, specific audio metadata from the mixer, camera and visual data from the camera dept.

Could this ever happen? Would it be so involved and time consuming to implement that the workflow we are trying to service could change before we could even get anything implemented?

Food for thought.

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

[cmgoodin]

Courtney, you're dreaming --- but oh what a glorious dream! What you have proposed, that which we have all imagined in some form or another, would be wonderful --- the centralizing and standardizing of the ever more present and necessary metadata, with the necessary info coming from the proper places directly --- scene and take from script, TC from master timecode source, specific audio metadata from the mixer, camera and visual data from the camera dept.

Could this ever happen? Would it be so involved and time consuming to implement that the workflow we are trying to service could change before we could even get anything implemented?

Food for thought.

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

Well, of course I may be dreaming. But without dreams nothing would ever be invented.  As you can see from that slippery iPhone in your hand, WiFi circuitry is now evolved to where it is standardized and easy to incorporate into any small portable device.  All that would be necessary is writing the PHP code to handle the queries and agree on a tag terminology.  like the kind I use in my MP3 Tags  "SC=" for Scene "TK=" for Take  "TC=" for timecode etc. Once everyone agrees on the exchange protocol it would be easy to incorporate a small routine in each machine that, if connected to the wireless network, would poll the server at regular intervals or when the record button is hit.  It wouldn't change the workflow or be affected by future changes to the workflow.   This is a protocol that would unify the source of the metadata but not affect how that metadata is used.  I mean we have been using Scene and Take numbers to Identify materials in the Film business for over 100 years. 

---Courtney

[Philip Perkins]

These are interesting ideas, but might be more applicable to a big/long production where it could be setup and wrung out.  I mostly work on very short projects, so "industry standards" are important--we have to get up to speed very fast and then the project is over.  Next day, different people, different gear, different post facility.  In our world, weaning video post off record-run TC would be a great start for everyone on the production side: camera, sound, script.

Philip Perkins

[cmgoodin]

These are interesting ideas, but might be more applicable to a big/long production where it could be setup and wrung out.  I mostly work on very short projects, so "industry standards" are important--we have to get up to speed very fast and then the project is over.  Next day, different people, different gear, different post facility.  In our world, weaning video post off record-run TC would be a great start for everyone on the production side: camera, sound, script.

Philip Perkins

Philip,

Once the capability is built in to the hardware it could be automatic.  Like that blue-tooth headset or plug and play devices on your computer.

I agree the sooner we convince production that Rec Run timecode is a bad thing the better.  I think as we move to cameras that record on non-linear media like flash cards and hard drives, that the REC RUN concept will disappear.  It is a holdover from old single camera ENG days and is not useful in today's multi-camera and multichannel iso audio HD recording world.

-------Courtney

[old school]

All tasty food for thought indeed, but who owns and rents the system? Who monitors it w regards to the recording systems(cameras and sound). If we own the system and they wrap sound, do we have to stay until camera wrap? Who controls the metadata when there is no script person? All this would be easy to work out if it wasn't the film biz. To me, a system like Courtney has described would be a plus for multi camera reality type shows. As for rec./run I agree w Courtney and in fact for the last few years I have only used free run when shooting w H D cams. I try to control all the clocking issues w H D and not let the DIT tell me the "right" way. Keep up the R & D, we need better n cooler tools.

CrewC

[Jeff Wexler]

I think as we move to cameras that record on non-linear media like flash cards and hard drives, that the REC RUN concept will disappear.  It is a holdover from old single camera ENG days and is not useful in today's multi-camera and multichannel iso audio HD recording world.

-------Courtney

So true, all the things that are holdovers from previous established ways of doing things. Once you can break free of some of these things, creative, efficient and productive systems can develop to work the "new" way. Even though I totally understood why in the early days with the Deva the only way anyone was willing to deal with it was to treat it like a linear tape machine, I knew it was this resistance to establishing new systems. The first several jobs I did with the first Deva were all handled this way --- non-linear random access file based recordings were simply "played out" of the Deva in real time just as if it were a tape deck.

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

[Philip Perkins]

As a mere soundie I don't have a lot of traction vis a vis rec vs freerun TC.  But scripties often have a good deal of influence and are often hired before me.  If the scriptie and I can get the 1st AC on board we might be able to gang up on post.....  Gonna try it--really liking the TOD TC concept right now.

Philip Perkins

[Simon Paine]

Scripties on my set were logging via mac laptop. Using a program called HD log. They have a little BNC to USB box that feeds timecode straight into the laptop. (It isn't a clock, it needs to be fed a TC signal.) I'll try and find the name of the company that makes the BNC / USB box.

[Philip Perkins]

Scripties on my set were logging via mac laptop. Using a program called HD log. They have a little BNC to USB box that feeds timecode straight into the laptop. (It isn't a clock, it needs to be fed a TC signal.) I'll try and find the name of the company that makes the BNC / USB box.

Please do--thanks

Philip Perkins

[mikefilosa]

Joining this late, I am anxious for the development of a device that would put the burden of metadata accuracy in the hands of those that initiate the changes and scene / take number assignments....

Scripties.... 

If metadata is not 100% accurate and reliably so, I do not see the benefit .... 

I still experience the occasional and frustrating communication gap between what gets on the slate and what the take actually "is" ...

Although not as elegant as the GR-1, the Denecke TC-JR is a much lower cost reader that will take a TOD jam and it has a "hold" button ... I often hand one to script for their use....

Since the advent of Deva and the pre-record feature, I can count on one hand the number of times I might have used Rec-Run in the last 8 years....  I always use TOD, and am very careful with accurate dates in UserBits...  even after midnight. 

Although I prefer to jam a slate or syncbox, one can still broadcast a TOD code and still have incremental segment numbers pop into the UBits for better "locating" in post ...

I've done that a time or two, but I still prefer no RF link between me and the slate....

Michael Filosa, CAS

[Guest klingklang]

Does anyone have a line on a piece of software (and hardware) that will allow me to capture LTC (as from a camcorder etc) on a current Mac laptop (via USB?), perhaps via a function key, and insert it in a database that also allows real time typing in of notes?  We used to do this, years ago, with a prgm called AutoLog that looked at the serial output of BetaCam decks (via an o40 Mac serial port)--this worked very well.  AutoLog has a website still but I haven't been able to raise anyone there.  Surely there is another app that does this....?

Philip Perkins

This is what you want I guess:

http://icehousepro.us/tcode/

http://icehousepro.us/tclogger/

decodes TC from audio-in of your mac or any other audio-device. cross-platform. take notes to incomming tc. you can also setup wireless tc-networks.

[Philip Perkins]

This is what you want I guess:

http://icehousepro.us/tcode/

http://icehousepro.us/tclogger/

decodes TC from audio-in of your mac or any other audio-device. cross-platform. take notes to incomming tc. you can also setup wireless tc-networks.

Thanks, looks cool.  Do you know anyone using this? 

Philip Perkins

[Simon Paine]

The BNC to Usb timecode input box i spoke of in an earlier post can be found here: (fourth item down)

http://www.imagineproducts.com/hardware_mac.html

[Guest Jeff Colon]

I worked a bit for CNN when they still had sattelite dishes in the swimming pool in Atlanta     We would work in Free Run on quick turnaround news... the correspondent and producer had stop watches that we would also "eyeball" sync to code...  As we would roll, they would make notes with their trusty stopwatches... we would get to the sat feed and they would almost have an EDL for the feed... it was primitive... but got the job done...better than any I've seen.

I apologize for going off thread... but thought an interesting solution.  Now i'll go look at the TC code link from the 21st century...

jeff c

[Guest klingklang]

Thanks, looks cool.  Do you know anyone using this? 

Philip Perkins

No, sorry. But you can simply download a demo and try it. No hardware required and it´s cross-platform.

[Philip Perkins]

This is what you want I guess:

http://icehousepro.us/tcode/

http://icehousepro.us/tclogger/

decodes TC from audio-in of your mac or any other audio-device. cross-platform. take notes to incomming tc. you can also setup wireless tc-networks.

My scriptie friend got this and we just tried it out on her Mac.  So far it totally rocks and she's very happy.    THANKS

Philip Perkins