CAT 5 distribution setups

[Darren]

Some large Home Depot-ish hardware store.  It came with 30m of A/C extension cord on it.  The A/C cable that I stripped off had a much larger diameter so, as a result, I was able to fit 100m of Cat5 on there in its place.

It took a bit of thought as to how to best deal with terminating the cable but, believe it or not, simply bonding the inline coupler on and drilling a hole in the reel for the cable to exit has proved be perfectly workable.

[RPSharman]

I've seen some video assist guys really struggle with the reel method.  Perhaps better with CAT 5 than BNC and/or AC.  Your cable looks very neat in its home, so I am guessing you have had some great success.

[Darren]

Robert, BNC is larger diameter, much heavier, and much stiffer than stranded CAT5.  Remember, BNC always has a solid center conductor and some sort of fairly robust dielectric to keep the centre conductor from the shield.

John, just checked and this particular reel is made by "Woods" and is called "Cord Caddy 2".

[John Blankenship]

John, just checked and this particular reel is made by "Woods" and is called "Cord Caddy 2".

Thanks,

John B.

[Daniel McIntosh]

Below are two brands of professional CAT 5 cable.  The Belden has two grades- one is OK for indoors, the other for rougher environments.  It coils well and lays flat:

http://www.belden.com/01Home/01_FeaturedProduct.cfm

I have ordered the stranded version of this from Redco.  I will report later on the coiling and durability of it:

http://www.redco.com/shopexd.asp?id=1224

The earlier photos posted here: http://jwsound.net/SMF/index.php?topic=1448.msg28973#msg28973 show the heavy duty Neutrik etherCON RJ45 jacks on the boxes.  These are mated to these plugs:

http://www.neutrik.com/us/en/dataconnectors/210_1267482192/NE8MC_detail.aspx

http://www.neutrik.com/client/neutrik/media/products/view/210_1267482192.jpg

These do not snag on the floor or other obstructions when coiling or pulling through.  They would then couple with this for additional extensions:

http://www.neutrik.com/client/neutrik/media/products/view/210_941824373.jpg

[Noah Timan]

Below are two brands of professional CAT 5 cable.  The Belden has two grades- one is OK for indoors, the other for rougher environments.  It coils well and lays flat:

http://www.belden.com/01Home/01_FeaturedProduct.cfm

I have ordered the stranded version of this from Redco.  I will report later on the coiling and durability of it:

http://www.redco.com/shopexd.asp?id=1224

Hey Daniel, how'd it work out?

[John Blankenship]

I've been using these CAT5E cables (in both 50' and 100' lengths) and have been pleased with the results and even more pleased with the cost/performance ratio.

http://tinyurl.com/m6c2t4

John B.

[Noah Timan]

I've been using these CAT5E cables (in both 50' and 100' lengths) and have been pleased with the results and even more pleased with the cost/performance ratio.

http://tinyurl.com/m6c2t4

John B.

Hey John, do they lay flat?  I've been using the regular (non-heavy duty) CAT-5 for a few years now.  It's inexpensive and works fine, and there's plenty of it to run to multiple sets and leave it run, but taping down the trip line has officially gotten old.

[John Blankenship]

How flat it lies depends upon how well it's been "trained" and how it is laid out.  I haven't compared it to other CAT5E except that it lies much better than runs with solid conductors.  This cable has 24AWG 4pair Stranded conductors.

For less than $12 including S&H you could get a 50' one and try it out:

http://tinyurl.com/km4nkz

If you do, please let us know how it compares.

John B.

[Daniel McIntosh]

I am happy with the Redco Duracat stranded cable and their in-house assembly. 

http://www.redco.com/shopexd.asp?id=1224

Redco is very reasonable and they have a fast delivery.  I will be ordering another 100' extension.

Details at this earlier post:

http://jwsound.net/SMF/index.php?topic=1448.msg32264#msg32264

[wolfvid]

read this on cat 5

http://wolfvid.com/datasheets/faq_cat5_cabeling_specs.pdf

[Jim Gilchrist]

read this on cat 5

http://wolfvid.com/datasheets/faq_cat5_cabeling_specs.pdf

Thanks, Wolf

Very nice resource.

Best regards,

Jim

[JimMansen]

OK, so I've always wanted to avoid the expense and trouble of a multiple channel snake from the cart to the set.  I thought I read a couple of years ago that Mark Ulano had a system of audio inputs for his cart that allowed him to remote the wireless receivers and send a comtec feed over Cat 5.  Now, in these posts it sound like the only use for a Balun  and cat 5 is for low quality audio and inexpensive Cat 5 sends and returns to Video assist. Is there a system that would allow high quality audio from 4 radio mics (or more?) is it too expensive for regular use?  I always dreamed of 4 radio mics and at least 1 return for the comtec channel and maybe 1 more for utility use.  Pipe dream or possibility?

[David Waelder]

I thought I read a couple of years ago that Mark Ulano had a system of audio inputs for his cart that allowed him to remote the wireless receivers and send a comtec feed over Cat 5.

Mark does, indeed, have a rig that allows him to keep the radio receivers on a set cart - he calls it the Front of House Cart, or FOH - and feeds the audio back to his main cart. The main cart may be off set. He described the interface in some detail in an article about making "State of Play" that ran in the Local 695 Quarterly. The whole rig is a bit complex to summarize here (and I'm no authority on it) but the 695 Quarterly is available for download:

http://www.695.com/html/magazine.html

David Waelder

[JimMansen]

Thanks David.  Had not seen that for some reason.  Great article.  Still don't know if those of us with smaller systems can afford something like that, or which Baluns etc. he uses. 

[Richard Lightstone, CAS]

If it is strictly for video receive and audio to send to video assist, then just about any baluns will work. There are many threads here on video distribution via cat 5 and baluns.

RL

[JimMansen]

No, not just for video.  I'd like to use it for program audio.  4 radio mics, 1 comtec send, maybe 1 additional send.  Affordable? 

[Philip Perkins]

No, not just for video.  I'd like to use it for program audio.  4 radio mics, 1 comtec send, maybe 1 additional send.  Affordable? 

Hey Jim--I think Mark U is using an Avcom rig to digitise his audio at the on-set cart and then uses CAT5 to send the multichannel digital audio stream back to some Avcom boxes on his mixer cart, I think he gets something like 16 ch per run. (It's in the article.)  But the production audio on the Cat5 is all digital, the analog stuff is SD video and audio distro to the Village etc., not what he is recording.  This is gear that was developed for live concert sound, to cut down on cable runs and feed digital FOH consoles.  As was said, I think the limitation on using Cat5 the way you want to is mostly in the quality of the baluns--I'll bet there are some higher end baluns out there for hi-end home entertainment installs etc...?  My Intellix baluns are too low fi for actual production sound but work great for 2 audio/2 SD video village feeds.

Philip Perkins

[Richard Lightstone, CAS]

Thats, Aviom

Link here: http://www.aviom.com/Applications/Digital-Snakes-and-Audio-Networking.cfm?ref=homebutton

RL

[John Steigerwald]

This is gear that was developed for live concert sound, to cut down on cable runs and feed digital FOH consoles.

Just for reference, the system was initially designed for monitoring in a recording studio.  It was the first system of it's kind that allowed a musician to build up his own custom monitor mix from up to 16 individual channels on a box that could be linked and daisy chained with inexpensive CAT5 cabling.

To the best of my knowledge, it never caught on much in the pro touring industry, tho some acts did use the system for stage monitoring, ear mixes, etc.  The live sound market was slow to embrace digital snakes (at least for the runs to FOH) until they could be proven uber reliable. 

I find their stuff quite useful in reality tv.  It makes wiring surveillance installs a breeze as I can locate the unit central to all my plant mics and then run a single CAT5 back to the control room.  On a show that required longer runs to the control room, I had a unit racked up with a couple Lectro Venues (cast mics) and a TRUE 8 ch mic pre (plant mics).  The CAT5 output hit a box that converted it to fiber, the fiber ran to the control room where it was converted back to CAT5 and then plugged into an Aviom card in a Yamaha DM2000.  Nice and clean. 

AFAIK, Mark uses the AN-16i and AN-16o modules in his setup which are 1RU 16 channel line in and line out boxes, respectively.

[studiomprd]

" Affordable? "

depends on what you consider affordable;  by most standards, it is expensive...

[JimMansen]

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to answer.  I understand it a lot better now. Do we know any renter, dealer that has these units and can we guess what the digital pair of Baluns might cost?

Jim Mansen

[Jim Gilchrist]

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to answer.  I understand it a lot better now. Do we know any renter, dealer that has these units and can we guess what the digital pair of Baluns might cost?

Jim Mansen

http://www.trewaudio.com/store/product.php?productid=885&cat=86&page=1

[Philip Perkins]

http://www.trewaudio.com/store/product.php?productid=885&cat=86&page=1

These are the sort of baluns used in most video assist sends--here's a balun that MuxLab sells for digital audio:  http://www.muxlab.com/products/ve_avd_digital_balun.html.  (Cat5 UTP) No specs.  They have a "stereo hifi 20Hz-20k Hz " balun too, (2 audio 1 SD video) but no distortion etc specs.

Philip Perkins

[Darren]

-here's a balun that MuxLab sells for digital audio:  http://www.muxlab.com/products/ve_avd_digital_balun.html.  (Cat5 UTP) No specs.

This muxlab one (below) is likely more suited for professional AES digital audio.  I believe the one above is for "hi-fi" type purposes...

http://www.muxlab.com/products/ve_avd_monopro_xlr.html

I use a lot of MUXLAB products and have been very happy with them.  We did manage to blow one up, along with most everything on the video cart, last year from some bad power.  Muxlab cheerfully replaced it under their lifetime warranty program.  FYI, many of their video baluns are now available with BNC connections instead of RCA, if you should so desire.

On average I've been paying about $60-$65 per balun, but that's for quad baluns.  Haven't priced out the digital ones.  When you google Muxlab, you'll find many many dealers.

Cheers,

Darren