Advice please: bad sound, a difficult actor, on set politics and reduced budgets

[Robert Li]

who knows it could be a cult pic... like "the room" lol

[TheBlimp]

Sonic, I feel for you and I wish you good luck on this. I'm just starting out (one man-ish), have only minimal equipment, but hey I think I know what I'm doing, what did I mean to say.... after being burnt real bad in two student movies two years ago (not quite as terrible as your experience, I guess), here's what I learned the hard way.

if any of these things are "too much to ask for": run.

- get the script on time

- go through the script thoroughly, take notes, discuss w/ director

- scout the location with the director, take script with you, discuss location related dialogue issues

- tell them what you need, what can be done or what can't be done

- if you can't do it on your own, be honest and ask for/ or bring an assistant.

- communicate all concerns on time. if they don't have the time now, they won't care during shoot.

When doing your planning, or even before: if they "don't have the time" to discuss audio matters, if they give you a bad time for being "overly concerned", or if in general it seems they don't really care about audio aspects: stay away. stay away. a few bucks are not worth such trouble. I do unpaid shoots from time to time, but only with people who care about all aspects of their movie.

Sorry if this all sounds clumsy, English is not my mother tongue, etc.:

I bet you'll do better next time.

Don't freak out over equipment. Equipment is important but not half as important as common sense.

Let us know how it goes.

[Jesse Flaitz]

Decided to bump this thread with my own set politics issue. I had a situation where lighting/camera was making it very difficult for sound and when I brought my concern to the DP I was told "I'm not going to change a shot to accomodate sound"... I'm definitely a pick your battles kind of guy, but if I think something is important enough, who is the person I should discuss these issues with?

[studiomprd]

" "I'm not going to change a shot to accomodate sound" "

there is more information needed here...

was this a real, experienced DP, member of 600, ASC, or SOC ??

was this someone with a camcorder..??

" if I think something is important enough, who is the person I should discuss these issues with? "

maybe the AD, if s/he knows what they are doing, or Director if s/he knows what they are doing, or producer if s/he knows what they are doing, or maybe the UPM if...

[jrd456]

I don't know if this has been mentioned,but you must always scout the locations whether you are paid for it or not.That way you can discuss it with the powers that be before the shoot.It always works out better that way.Also,record ambience at each location and I.D. it.

J.D.

[graham]

I don't know if this has been mentioned,but you must always scout the locations whether you are paid for it or not.That way you can discuss it with the powers that be before the shoot.It always works out better that way.Also,record ambience at each location and I.D. it.

J.D.

I disagree. I do not work for free and will not donate my time to a for profit venture. If they do not have the budget for sound to be part of the scout( after arguing for it), I would do my best in problem locations. If there is an hvac that can not be shut off, so be it.

[studiomprd]

" If they do not have the budget for sound to be part of the scout( after arguing for it), "

on most episodic television production sound does not go on the scouts, but we get great information from locations, AD's, and even the GE's who go.

OTOH, I did not get the feeling that either this thread, or Jesse's issue were a scouting issue.

in Jesse's case, the DP is a rank amateur.

[jrd456]

fridges in pub

J.D.

[Wandering Ear]

fridges in pub

J.D.

Eaalrly drinkers get warm beer

[Martin Kittappa]

If the tec scout isn't too far away from me, and it's just a quick visit to one location I may go along for free so long as I have nothing else booked. I always tell the A.D. that a paying job will take priority over a non paying tec scout, even if the paying job is booked at the last minute. If it's a full day multi location scout then I wouldn't go out for free.

[studiomprd]

" Eaalrly drinkers get warm beer "

person responsible has difficulty ever finding work in this town again

[TheBlimp]

I'd really like to hear how the shoot went... Sonic?

[Wandering Ear]

" Eaalrly drinkers get warm beer "

person responsible has difficulty ever finding work in this town again

It was a joke.

[soundperson]

2 cents worth. Get atmos or room tone for specially for locations where you cannot shut off/down the source of noise . Your editor and producer will thank you for this. Specially - in worse cases that parts or the whole scene is subject for ADR.

[TheBlimp]

2 cents worth. Get atmos or room tone for specially for locations where you cannot shut off/down the source of noise . Your editor and producer will thank you for this. Specially - in worse cases that parts or the whole scene is subject for ADR.

If he gets the chance to do so?

[sonicparticle]

Hello all

The traumatic experience on location finally belongs to the past . Naahh, it wasn't that bad, but after spending sometime in the comfort of the studio, I have reflected enough on the events of that production. And now I am ready to share my thoughts...

First of all, chaps once again I have to thank you all for the advice. Very-very useful information, without a shadow of a doubt. Apologies about the long read below:

The shooting actually finished alright. There are only two scenes that do have problems and perhaps only one scene that defo needs ADR. For this one man show, I consider this a success. The director was indeed quite happy in the end. But post production hasn't started audio editing yet, so perhaps my ass is still on the line.

Back to the set though:

By the last week I had three lav mics at my disposal (not the good stuff) but two EW G3 100s, along with the Sony (the Sony by the way, these have very poor coverage). Judging my performance thoug, the only thing that I still that lowers my confidence is the lav mic rustle. I listened back to a lot of the rushes and I am finding out that 90% the lines come through just fine but anything in between will be subjected to "Strip Silence" and replaced with Foley. Is this what normally happens with you guys?

This was happening to male characters mostly, with snuggly fitted shirts, or arms folded around the belly during the take, etc. The only perfect takes where with any women where the cleavage proves itself amazing for another yet reason.

I would have really loved if I could have lav takes that could be more rustle free, beginning to end. So, I am thinking that I might be doing something wrong here. And I've got numerous questions on that matter but I'll search the JW Sound bible first before I start posting.

Another comment: we synced some scenes with the director and I cannot stress enough how much more natural the boom mic sounds versus the lav. I mean, we always knew that, but there is quite a difference between knowing and realising. And I am talking realising here. When I was monitoring the audio, while booming, I was chuffed to bits that I got good, clean radio mic sound. But when you put the sound to the picture boom wins, hands down....

There was a car scene, in a noisy 4x4 and I managed to get impeccable sound. No difficult camera placements though: I planted the two radio mics in both sun visors and the end results sound phenomenal (my first car scene!!!!). The third actor was at the back, radio'd, wearing a coat. All 100%, useable dialogue. Again, reading the forum here, helped to put me in the right track to know what to avoid and frequent caveats. Cheers to that!

Coming back to it, I think by day six on the location I realised what it would take to do a job like this properly and with style. So, for any newcomers this list might be a helpful indication.

• Shotgun mic, for exterior.

• Shotgun mic, hypercardioid for interior.

• Carbon boom pole with long reach - I couldn't reach 5 meters!

• All the shockmounts, windshields, furs, etc.

• All the batteries (and spares), chargers, power distribution units, that go with the kit.

• At least four radio mics.

• All the assorted radio mic parafernalia (which is quite a few).

• Another wireless system for headphones to go to the director.

• And I could do with another radio pair to feed the camera directly.

• Obviously a multitrack recorder, a six channel being the minimum (for me).

• Soldering kit, connectors, cable converters, adapters, etc.

• A cart, or a magliner for protecting your precious vertebrae.

• A car, or mini van. To travel between locations without relying for the production team and to avoid the constant frustration of the camera team jumping in first!

• And if one wants to really do this in style then van is the way to go. And convert it something like a small OB van. HD-SDI monitor is a plus, and then you can hire your own boom operator. And then you're laughing.

And since we're being exposed to elements, anything below is a must:

• Raincovers, hats, sun cream.

• Tarpaulin, Polybags, Kenair (for the precious cables) ACF50 (to protect and maintain any metallic bits of kit).

• Wellies (if in the UK), good comfy strong shoes (from Merrell and the like).

Of course this list can be argued. But this is what I would need to complete the job with less stress:

I went on board with forty per cent of the equipment that I own. By the end of the production, I sourced another thirty. But the moral I got from my story is that I had to worry about the equipment and all the set difficulties. The latter are enough on any given day day. So, my take now is that gear issues simply need to be eliminated, to the best extend possible.

Other verdicts from this experience:

I did every mistake in the rulebook. Genuinely. I missed pressing record on two takes that were irreplaceable. In the first, a band was playing in a pub, I was in a very difficult position with the boom, I was on standby, the band started playing because of bad AD comms and I could not hit record. One the second one, it was a very delicate take, the AD didn't call for turnover and endboard, I was so tired (the day before the last of production) and I missed it. The actor cried his heart out during this take and I missed it!!!!! I told the director immediately, I was red in my face (but couldn't see it because it was a dark exterior scene) and thankfully he hated that take. So, f***ing phew there....

Another thing I learned is working with elder actors: if someone is above 60, there are only a set amount of takes you might have at your disposal. If someone is above 70, you might be lucky to get one! Of course in any given situation the director might call the first take, the take, regardless. But my point here is to know the scene and to know when it might be safe to take risks with the boom. Ideally, there should be no take that involves any risks. But some time the pace was so fast, and I always tried to take the best sound I could. In this occasion, the boom got in shot, I took the rap, and we carried on.

Know the lenses: Prime lenses and their focal lengths, zoom lenses, all lenses. I learned when the DOP says, "I'm on the 18" to get me and the boom out of the way

One's boom technique can be good, but it is a skill that is constantly developing and needs constant developing. I was solid, but I had to face something new everyday, and I learned something new everyday. So, nice one there.

I need to learn more about wiring up radio mics to the point that I am more ballsy and confident on how to handle the process. And the best way to do that (for my way of learning things) is to apprentice with a true professional. There is a reason for everything, so I need to see how it is really done by the men that spent time in these trenches. Pardon the poetry, but I feel like i was a new recruit, that was given a shotgun, put me in the first line, telling me that I have to win!

Needless to say, that the next production I worked in (it was far less demanding though), I was so much better, the sound was good and with much less effort.

Hope this helps as much as other info in here helped me.

Peace in the valley.

[Gerard-NYNY]

when off camera noise from anything is ruining the recording, tell them they have to live with it on the recording and fix in post, or re-stage the scene where you can capture clean audio.

[Henchman]

FYI, don't assume that a noisy scene will have to be ADR'ed.

Yes, not having the noise is of course proffered. But a good re-recording mixer can really make a huge difference in the amount of ADR needed on a production.

[TheBlimp]

Glad to hear it worked out in the end. You live and learn.