AndyP Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Firstly, hello to all, I've only recently discovered this forum and there seems to be a wealth of knowledge, experience and good advice on offer. I hope I'll be able to add something over coming months, I'm an experienced UK based freelance sound mixer with a varied background now working mostly in Outside Broadcast. Anyway to my question, I'm looking after the audio for Sky Sports coverage of the Formula One and use sound devices 788t's as midpoint mixers for my RF hops. I've a problem with the 788's internal headphone amp and its apparent lack of headroom. To drive headphones (modded peltors with 70ohm hd25 drivers) to the neccessary level (LOUD) I'm finding the 788 headphone amp clips way before the output stage. This is freaking out my midpoint soundmen as they can't tell if distortion is just on their headphones or going to line. We propose using the unbalanced outputs of the 788 to feed a simple external headphone amp. This amp must have good headroom and power whilst being externally powered, lightweight and as small as possible. Would anyone have any suggestions or recommendations? Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjGo Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 http://fischer-amps.de/inear-monitoring-hardware/in-ear-body-pack.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margus Jukkum Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 You could try Ray Samuels. http://www.raysamuelsaudio.com I use his Emmeline SR-71B fully balanced input-output headphone amp with my stereo system at home to power my HiFiMan HE 500 headphones. The unit is smaller than my iPod and is powered by an internal rechargeable lithium battery. I had thought about using it with a 788 when I had to use one for a day as I found the headphone amp in the 788 just atrocious. Thankfully I'm back to regularly using my Cantar. The Emmeline is rather pricey but worth it. Around $700.00 U.S. if memory serves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyP Posted June 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Thanks for the suggestions, I'd not seen either product before. The fischer certainly ticks all the boxes,the Emmeline's size is great but I do need to externally power any solution. I've three midpoint kits and they all power off single anton bauer batteries, I'd like to add the headphone amp to the existing power distribution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macrecorder Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 I'd be much more worried about what volume levels you are subjecting your crew to in order to overcome the hideous noise levels of F1 cars. I have used the 788 at high volume levels without distortion, so I hate to think what you are driving them to. It would make much more sense to look at isolating your headphones from external noise first, before deafening your crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyP Posted June 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 I'd be much more worried about what volume levels you are subjecting your crew to in order to overcome the hideous noise levels of F1 cars. I have used the 788 at high volume levels without distortion, so I hate to think what you are driving them to. It would make much more sense to look at isolating your headphones from external noise first, before deafening your crew. We use modded peltor headsets which quote the highest noise isolation figures that we could find (30db plus from memory).http://peltorcomms.3m.com/World/Product.asp?PageNumber=938&ProductCategory_Id=23&Product_Id=291 The drivers though are poor, we swapped them out with what we had available (70ohm hd25's). For our environment, we find the 788 headphone amp gives out way to early, it clips with transients. We also have 552 mixers, the headphone output on those (using the same cans) is much better. I'm pretty sure a decent headphone amp would actually allow the midpoint guys to listen at a lower average level. Maybe we've a duff batch of 788's if no-one else has the same issue? What impedance are your headphone drivers? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 To drive headphones (modded peltors with 70ohm hd25 drivers) to the neccessary level (LOUD) I'm finding the 788 headphone amp clips way before the output stage. This is freaking out my midpoint soundmen as they can't tell if distortion is just on their headphones or going to line. Not familiar with the 788 but is there a menu item to adjust the headphone setting? At risk of getting slammed by posting this but Zaxcom specifically designed Nomads headphone circuit to prevent this. It was designed to clip when the output clips so if you hear clipping in the headphones you are clipping your output if you are not clipping you are fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 How about in-ear earbuds under the peltors. The old Shure E2 line was great with the foam inserts - the newer versions seem to have a fix for the wire breakage issue. They claim 37dB isolation ; add that to the 25dB of the earmuffs and you may just save your hearing. http://www.shure.com/americas/products/earphones-headphones/se-models/se315-sound-isolating-earphones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjGo Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 It was mentioned in another thread a while ago if I remember correctly, you could use high quality in-ear monitors like Ultimate Ears or Etymotic, preferably with custom molded earpieces, for superb isolation. My brother used to use them at the sometimes extreme loud concerts where he was playing (guitarist) as IEM-monitors, and he was very, very happy with them, it actually prevented him from hearing damage (standing next to the drummer, loud foldback floormonitoring, screaming guitaramps) and gave him the opportunity to listen to the monitormix at moderate levels.. This isn't exact the same situation offcourse. You could use inears in combination with the peltors just as an extra.. My experience with the 788t headphone-amp is that you will make the ears bleed waaay before there's any distortion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjGo Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 How about in-ear earbuds under the peltors. The old Shure E2 line was great with the foam inserts - the newer versions seem to have a fix for the wire breakage issue. They claim 37dB isolation ; add that to the 25dB of the earmuffs and you may just save your hearing. http://www.shure.com...ating-earphones haha, we were typing at the same moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pindrop Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Not familiar with the 788 but is there a menu item to adjust the headphone setting? At risk of getting slammed by posting this but Zaxcom specifically designed Nomads headphone circuit to prevent this. It was designed to clip when the output clips so if you hear clipping in the headphones you are clipping your output if you are not clipping you are fine. Yes how dare you directly suggest that one piece of manufacturers equipment is better than another, it's not in the correct spirit of this forum and if the Senator was here he'd jump on you bigtime and then you'd be sorry! P.S. and nevermind neverclip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyP Posted June 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 I have offered custom fit moulds (I use http://www.earmonitorsaustralia.com/EMcustom-11.htm) however the guys in the field prefer cans as they're easier to slip off their ears when needed. They argue the Peltors work fine on the 552 but not the 788... The Nomad headphone amp design makes perfect sense to me, thanks for pointing that out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Denton Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 At risk of getting slammed by posting this but Zaxcom specifically designed Nomads headphone circuit to prevent this. It was designed to clip when the output clips so if you hear clipping in the headphones you are clipping your output if you are not clipping you are fine. Jack, I find it harder and harder to believe you're not on Zaxcom's payroll. Keep your spruiking for Zaxcom threads. This headphone amp is really good. I've been using one with a Senn G3 when I need an IFB and it rocks. It's got the same circuitry as the Grado RA-1 amp and it's much cheaper. And looks totally rad! http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/190679377221?redirect=mobile#ht_3943wt_1009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 " not on Zaxcom's payroll. " there may be other considerations... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macrecorder Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 Jack, I find it harder and harder to believe you're not on Zaxcom's payroll. Keep your spruiking for Zaxcom threads. That's funny. I just assumed he was zaxcom's rep here, consultant whatever, since that's what he does. Are you saying he isn't? That would be more surprising. Not that I mind or care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 I'd be much more worried about what volume levels you are subjecting your crew to in order to overcome the hideous noise levels of F1 cars. I have used the 788 at high volume levels without distortion, so I hate to think what you are driving them to. That was exactly my reaction. If they're on Formula 1 races, then I'd worry more about the mikes driven into distortion. A quick Google search reveals than an F1 car can approach 120dB when you're less than 20 feet away. I would go for something like Remote Audio's HN-7506 isolating headphones: These are essentially Sony 7506's in a rugged housing. The comments from users indicate that they work well in race car and rock concert situations: http://www.remoteaudio.com/high_noise_headset/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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