How much wild/amb stuff does post actually use?

[Jesse Flaitz]

I'm curious as to how much of our location extras (wild tracks, AMBs etc.) actually get used. When I'm working post we usually get the OMFs and spot/edit accordingly. It's not always easy to get the production sound files and even if I did, I wouldn't know what is what without also getting a copy of a production sound report (which I never have). I'm sure it's different on big budget projects, but it seems very rare to see a full AMB track in an OMF, and only a few added FX stuff that often doesn't sound like it's from location.

This is just based from my very-ultra low budget experience, I'm just wondering if more professional projects incorporate more production sound extras.

Thanks!

[old school]

Since the Senator is missing, let me be the 1st to say, "depends". I have worked on films where Post liked our extra effort and used it. Others never looked/listened to it, let alone used it. Every project is different.

CrewC

[Eric Berzins]

Ultra low budget is often where what we get in production is most valuable. Just as an example, I recently did post for a short form project I had boomed and we ended up using everything we recorded on set featuring an old checker cab in the final mix. It's got a unique sound and I found out in post that there is very little material covering that particular vehicle in the standard libraries (and our access to the vehicle was limited to our shooting days as it had been brought in from out of town). As always: better safe than sorry. If you're able to get good amb/pfx tracks on set, go for it (particularly if it's something special); I don't think anyone who has done post has ever complained about having too much material to work with.

[Philip Perkins]

If you want post to use your wild sounds you have to make it easy for them. IE maybe even go to the effort organizing a special "pull" reel with a log file. If you just leave the wild tracks in the folders you recorded all the dialog in then many productions simply won't take the time to look for them, esp if they aren't told they are there.

phil p

[bleueblancrouge]

dialogue editors will always love to have (ie: need to have) these extras. room tones and amb (exterior) tones are always welcome. they are essential for cutting a smooth and seamless dialogue track for the mix, or dub as some of you call it. low budget or not, it doesn't make a difference.

as for the effects crew, old school is right. it depends. eric is right when it comes to original sounds. if the production doesn't have the budget to pay the post sound crew to record these original sounds on their own, some time after the shooting is complete, whatever is collected on set will be very appreciated by the lower budget productions. i always use what's recorded when able. especially if it's something the actor is manipulating or driving if it's something uncommon and special.

again, generic city sounds are always found in our sound libraries. but interesting sounds are another story. there's never enough night time city atmospheres for us. nature sounds are good. if it's shot in a foreign country and the script is set there, any ambiances are welcomed. especially tracks with people talking. it's next to impossible to get the change to go and record out there for us in post.

phil has a nice idea. maybe you don't have to go all the way and pull sounds to put them on a single reel, but a log files with what and where all these tracks can be found is always welcomed. file #, day, folder, scene/shot/take, location, description. whatever's essential.

stereo tracks are gold. usually we get monos and that's what we expect unless the production mixer has a reputation for stereo recordings.

try to get a note for us as a heads up that you've done these recordings. maybe on the first page of the sound reports so it's obvious. or get the supervising sound editors email and drop him a line. don't rely on producers or anyone else to do it for you. if we know they're there, we'll go looking and listening for them.

i find it's a rarity, mostly due to time constraints on set, to get extra tracks other that standard room tones. when we do. we like it. at least i do and i'm sure other supervising sound editors who love what they do will appreciate it as well.

cheers,

P.

[RPSharman]

I say, if it makes a sound, roll on it and try to get a good recording. The lower the budget, the more they need it. And it doesn't cost any more, like "the old days". So get whatever you can.

Bigger budget stuff might replace your recordings, but they will appreciate the reference tracks.

[Chris McCallum]

I just spent 3 days on a shoot recording nothing but atmos tracks. The script calls for no dialogue but the director wanted ambiences to cut into each shot. I used my rode NT4 XY stereo mic to capture the ambience of each location so I am hoping for their sake that the files make it through to post!

[VASI]

What is AMB? Ambiences?

Please write the original names.

English is not native language for me.

Thank you very much!

[johnpaul215]

The films that I work on are nonunion low-budget Indies. I can also confirm that it varies. If post sound is hired, I will try to talk to them directly and ask what will help them, and what they want. There are some projects we recorded things just because we were there. Sometimes post will record things themselves, and sometimes they will use pretty much everything that we recorded. They may sweeten or enhance the recording, but our tracks are the base. Often our tracks are all they need.

I have a feeling it is up to the specific people doing post, and how they work. If they are young and ambitious, they may want to rerecord things just to get the experience. I know I have worked on films where the post sound people pretty much did it for a tuna sandwich just to get experience. They did it in free time from their paying job. Not much we can do once shooting wraps but turn in our recordings and hope for the best. First film I mixed had some clown mashed my 2 track recordings with camera mic reference audio into one mono file. He somehow convinced production I did that (not sure how my recorder got camera mic) and they let him book ADR time at his friend's studio. Unfortunately I found out after the fact.

[AudioMTL]

More is always better! Always depends but we try to record various wild prod effects and ambiences and put them labeled careful into a folder called "production sfx" a few are almost always used and appreciated during post

[Bondelev]

In my experience I would say, unfortunately, a lot less than I wish. On low budget films, the time does not exist for me to go through dailies looking for things. I usually get the OMF and that's it. Rarely do I even see the documentation from the mixer. If you do something, document it in your logs, and make sure it gets circled if you think it's usable. Unfortunately, on low budget films, the workflow usually involves people who don't know what they are doing (script supers who don't write anything down, or no script super at all; pictu editors who don't know how to import anything but the camera tracks, etc.).

[Ben Wong]

I say, if it makes a sound, roll on it and try to get a good recording. The lower the budget, the more they need it. And it doesn't cost any more, like "the old days". So get whatever you can.

Bigger budget stuff might replace your recordings, but they will appreciate the reference tracks.

I couldn't agree more. I teeter back and forth on production and post for different films (most being ultra low budget indies, like johnpaul), but I've always found wild tracks to be the most helpful. Since there's not much budget to go and ADR people, its always a huge money and time saver to find the wild and just lay it over the scene.

On one film, the guy doing production, apparently, took the actors away from set where there was a super loud genny, and re-recorded the whole scene. The atmos and everything sounded a little different, but he gave more than enough tone as well as foley to have everything match.

So yea! I don't see why not. It doesn't cost anything more, it takes a few minutes, and if its not used, no harm done.

[TheBlimp]

Well I do low budget shorts and better paid commercials, both location and post. For almost any wild sound I get on location there's a use in post. Then again, it's pretty easy if you do both, I guess: On location, I know pretty much what I need as wild recordings, and when in post, even months later, I tend to know exactly what wild recordings I have and where to look for them without going through the paperwork. Sometimes it's hard to convince the director/producer of the need of WS, but they're always happy with the results.

[bleueblancrouge]

when recording room tones, wild sounds and other clips, slugging them at the beginning is always a huge help (location, scene number, character's name, activity, type of recording, etc...) ie: "Bruce's kitchen room tone, MS, scene 29-2"

it helps just in case the sound reports get misplaced, or when we compile them and need to log them later on, we get a quick description right away when we play the track.

cheers,

P. mpse

[dfisk]

I'll add that is also "depends", but it depends on the people ahead of the dialogue and sound effects editors. It has really helped me when I was doing low budget projects with people that were on the ball. I did a short horror film that took place entirely in an apartment. There was a scene where the actress interacted with a bunch of stuff, and it didn't come through well enough on the dialogue track as wild sound, so they had her do all the same things again after they shot the scene, but didn't record any dialogue, and specifically recorded just the sounds. I was able to drop that audio track right in PT with everything else, and I had to do very little to it to make it work. When I worked on Hell's Kitchen, I cut sound effects on the first episode, and then moved on to other jobs. I saw the production mixer from that show (Keith Garcia) several months later, and he asked if I was able to use any of the sound effects he recorded in the kitchen. He was shocked to learn that I didn't even know he and his crew spent an entire day recording all the sounds I ended up spending two days trying to hunt down in a library and try and make work because either someone on production or picture editorial didn't know he had recorded those sound effects, or just ignored them. From the post side of things, I like everything little thing I can get, the most important part is making sure the sound editors know that material exists and is easy to get to. In the horror short example I mentioned, I was saved from having to spend a long time trying to record things to match what was on screen and make it work because they took the time to get it right then at production.

[bleueblancrouge]

...the most important part is making sure the sound editors know that material exists and is easy to get to.

like dfisk mentionned, and i'll stress again; if you can, send an email to the supervising sound editor that there are extras coming along with your recorded sound. and we'll use them.

up here in montreal, i always ask for the sound reports and i always get them. then i'll check for the extra recorded material.

P. mpse

[deanmc]

It is of course used when dialogue editing, but another consideration is for foreign or m/e mixes and stems where you have to build minutes of BG ambience. It is always preferable to use location audio as opposed to library room tone. I for one ( I mix mostly documentary ) use it all the time.

Dean McElwain, MPSE