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Here is an opportunity to learn without even being on set. Humility can be a great eye opener. Think before answering or reacting. You will be part of a team. Sometimes you will work with people whom you despise and you've either got to eat it or quit. Often times, issues stem from poor communication or someone's ego getting in the way. Take a step back and reassess.

Johns post, the way I read it in no way disrespected you. In fact, you could learn quite a bit from what he posted. 70% of our job is politics. Who you know, your demeanor and how you relate to others is more important than the quality of your work or how much you know.

Your sales pitch of yourself occurs to him like so many others he has received. Take on a different strategy for getting onto sets and you might be more successful. Also, do what you can to not burn bridges( ie your post to John, calling a potential employer rude)

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The first thing I look for when I'm hiring an intern... a positive attitude.

The second thing I look for when I'm hiring an intern... a willing attitude.

The third thing I look for when I'm hiring an intern... an "open to learning" attitude.

The last thing I look for when I'm hiring an intern... a person who thinks they know it all already. I'd much rather have someone who admits they know nothing than someone who thinks because they've been to this or that school they've got it all figured out.

In hiring for any position in any field -- number one is attitude.

Here we have someone who starts out by hiding behind an anonymous handle. Then, they make the most rudimentary of marketing mistakes -- not giving their potential customers the information they need to buy whatever it is they're selling. That's followed up by taking a general comment personally (it's NOT all about YOU). That's followed up with chastising others for not having done their "homework" to learn all about who they are.

This person couldn't be more obvious if they carried a sign that read, "I'm hot stuff and you're an idiot if you don't recognize it, you stupid jerk!"

So, JaysMicSoundsNice, you said you wanted experience, today you've been given the opportunity to gain some of the most useful experience you may ever encounter. Tough love? Yes. But, based on everything you've said and done in this short span of time, you desperately need to hear it.

How will you handle it? Will you learn from it or continue to have a chip on your shoulder and take the slow route to a much needed further education?

People here are actually trying to help you. If you're treating people who try to help this way, one can only imagine how you treat everyone else.

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The last thing I look for when I'm hiring an intern... a person who thinks they know it all already. I'd much rather have someone who admits they know nothing than someone who thinks because they've been to this or that school they've got it all figured out.

In hiring for any position in any field -- number one is attitude.

I have only taken one person in as a intern and the number one reason I did is he was the only person that was honest and said, " I know I went to college for 4 years but I feel like I learned more about what not to do then what to do." He didn't try to give me a resume that was full of BS and just wanted to learn.

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I never said I knew everything. When did I say that? I said Id like to help and lear. As a matter of fact, I said I was eager to learn. All I want is to learn more and help. Once again, I appologize if I offended anyone. Im a hard worker. Im good at following directions. I just want a shot.

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Hey JMSN, try rebooting perhaps? Try introducing yourself as a starter. Have you read any of the "Who I am today" posts? Might be a good way to start fresh here. Both John/Jon's n Whitney have given you great advise. I'd like to add some more. On most human heads that house the brain, there are 3 things that allow us to See, Hear, n Speak. Two have greater value than the other. Learn that and you should be alright.

CrewC

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Jay,

Not to belabor this any further... My suggestion to you would be to be willing to start a bit closer to the bottom. While I respect the drive you seem to have, It's been made pretty apparent that maybe you need a few more years under your belt before you dive into the deep end. Don't worry, we've all been there. Some sink, some swim... just be willing to learn from your mistakes (they will be your most valuable lessons).

Try to remember that there are hundreds of others in your market trying to "break-in" in just the same way you are. First impressions are lasting ones and the character you put forward can make or break your chances.

Please don't take this personally but I thought I could use this opportunity to outline some of the mis-steps that may have been taken (at least in my eyes) to further assist the incoming crop of hopeful members of the sound department. Again, please take this as a suggestion, not a direct attack.

1. Posting more or less the same message in multiple posts here per day. This is a small community and the regulars tend to remember posts like this... It tends to paint the poster as being desperate and inexperienced.

2. The "willing to boom or whatever" sentiment. To boom isn't something one should just be willing to do- it is the position within our department that quite possibly requires the most skill, experience, and diplomacy to perform successfully. Gaffers, Grips, and DP's can sniff out an inexperienced Boom-Op in no time, and (even if you have the slickest booming chops) you can risk becoming a detriment to the production sound in the end.

I would say that you are generally well served listening to the advice of John B. and Crew. They are two of the most well informed and generous voices in this weird cyber community. Learn to accept suggestions humbly, and be willing to grow slowly.

Ill close by saying that I know few people who have actually taken on interns for credit. It may be different in LA (I'm in NY). For the most part, I look to hire important staff positions. Allowing someone to come out to shadow for a day is a different story. I would suggest you take that route for a bit... and again, follow Crew's advice on the speaking. It's a learning experience, not a sales pitch.

Best of luck,

Wyatt

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I agree Wyatt I am looking to shadow anyone on set. I have used those exact words. I dont want to rush into anything. I want to be a cableman, not a boom operator. However, most jobs that I come across do not have cablemen because they are smaller projects. I do want to take my time. I need to work all summer in order to recieve class credit. I am currently gaining internship hours. I'm not looking for big projects. I need to learn first.

Jay,

Not to belabor this any further... My suggestion to you would be to be willing to start a bit closer to the bottom. While I respect the drive you seem to have, It's been made pretty apparent that maybe you need a few more years under your belt before you dive into the deep end. Don't worry, we've all been there. Some sink, some swim... just be willing to learn from your mistakes (they will be your most valuable lessons).

Try to remember that there are hundreds of others in your market trying to "break-in" in just the same way you are. First impressions are lasting ones and the character you put forward can make or break your chances.

Please don't take this personally but I thought I could use this opportunity to outline some of the mis-steps that may have been taken (at least in my eyes) to further assist the incoming crop of hopeful members of the sound department. Again, please take this as a suggestion, not a direct attack.

1. Posting more or less the same message in multiple posts here per day. This is a small community and the regulars tend to remember posts like this... It tends to paint the poster as being desperate and inexperienced.

2. The "willing to boom or whatever" sentiment. To boom isn't something one should just be willing to do- it is the position within our department that quite possibly requires the most skill, experience, and diplomacy to perform successfully. Gaffers, Grips, and DP's can sniff out an inexperienced Boom-Op in no time, and (even if you have the slickest booming chops) you can risk becoming a detriment to the production sound in the end.

I would say that you are generally well served listening to the advice of John B. and Crew. They are two of the most well informed and generous voices in this weird cyber community. Learn to accept suggestions humbly, and be willing to grow slowly.

Ill close by saying that I know few people who have actually taken on interns for credit. It may be different in LA (I'm in NY). For the most part, I look to hire important staff positions. Allowing someone to come out to shadow for a day is a different story. I would suggest you take that route for a bit... and again, follow Crew's advice on the speaking. It's a learning experience, not a sales pitch.

Best of luck,

Wyatt

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Very wise advice in this thread.

I once had an intern working for me (in a job unrelated to the film industry), and he was a USC Film School student. He was about to graduate and was looking for a job. As it so happened, I worked full time at the biggest post house in LA, so I put in a word for him to the vault manager to start the kid off in an entry-level positon.

Later on, I asked the vault manager how it went. He sighed and said, "the kid had a total attitude, said 'yeah, yeah, I'll do everything you tell me to do, I'm a hard worker, but what I really want to do is direct. I have a USC degree! I'll only work here maybe 6 months or a year, then I'm gonna bust out and make a big hit movie!" He didn't get the job. Last time I checked IMDB (20 years after this happened), I think he's had maybe 3-4 jobs on little films here and there, so I think his big break has yet to happen.

Graham's line about humility is really key, and it has to be sincere. The attitude you need to project is, "I'm going to come in early every day, I'll do whatever you tell me to do, I'll have a positive attitude, I'll do the dirty jobs if I have to, I'll watch and learn and stay out of the way as much as possible, and I'll leave late every day, even if it's on my own time." Heck, I know producers who say, "I'd rather have an merely competent guy with a positive attitude than a super-competent guy who's an a-hole." (One told me that's why they hired me. I think this was a compliment, but then again, maybe not.)

Then there was a studio owner/friend of mine in the 1990s who told me he received a stack of employment applications from Full Sail University graduates every week. He threw every one of them in the garbage, because every time he'd hire one, they'd come in saying, "OK, old man, I'm ready to engineer a big recording session now! Bring in Van Halen! Bring in the Foo Fighters! I'm ready!" And what he really wanted was a kid to align the machines, check the patches, normal out the board, put away microphones, copy files, run system updates, and get coffee.

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JaysMicSoundsNice... as you can see, it's a tough crowd in here but you've stood tall through it all, which in itself earns you credit. I don't do any hiring but I think some of the guys in this thread oughtta take you up on your offer and find out what you're really made of. Anybody?

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Thank you Laurence.

JaysMicSoundsNice... as you can see, it's a tough crowd in here but you've stood tall through it all, which in itself earns you credit. I don't do any hiring but I think some of the guys in this thread oughtta take you up on your offer and find out what you're really made of. Anybody?

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JMSN,

Try updating your avatar and adding your real name so that you can put some people at ease. It's not a requirement but you'll find people a bit more willing to help if they have some way to look you up.

In regards to everyone giving you a hard time its their way of seeing how you react to criticism. I don't know how much set experience you have but you can surely expect to bump heads with other departments down the road. If you can't handle yourself properly, or find a way to get along with others, then you may find yourself branded as a "hot head/smart ass/know it all" and have a hard time getting anyone to bring you on set again.

It's ok to stick up for yourself. You just have to learn how to do so tactfully.

In any case I think you've learned your lesson and its time to move on. Aside from posting here for experience, what else have you done to find work? What equipment do you have?

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Best way to approach a bunch of techie dudes/chics (i.e., we all think we know the best way to do anything) is to introduce yourself with as much humility and self-deprecation as possible.

Example: Hi I'm Daniel and I'm a sound guy. You know that Rode videomic you mount to your 7D? I can do a slightly better job than that at recording sound but my strongest skill is offering your production perceived value. Nothing says 'my company is worth your money' like a guy with a big pole and bad shoulders.

On this forum you might try something like: Hi my name is Jason. I used to use an electric weed whacker back on the farm in Ohio so I'd love to try wrangling your audio cables...I even went to school for it (weed whacking and sound - that was the course title). I used to tape stuff to my little brother's chest all the time so I can probably lav talent. Also, I've operated boom before and only hit a couple actors (all deserved) and like 5 ceiling fans. But seriously, if anyone needs a person like me please get in touch and let me be part of your team...I'll even let you hit me with a tennis racket every time the DP and Gaffer conspire against you (tennis racket not included).

That might work...but ya never know on these here interwebs :)

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Thanks deep owl lol. I actually know someone with a rode camera mic on a boom pole. I think his dr100 has better mics tho. But this is the equipment I have to deal with since I dont have my own. Work with what you got rite? Hopefully I'll have my own rig soon. I've got a wife and 2 young kids. That and being a full time student is killing my cash for gear. The good thing is that I can write my gear off as school expenses during tax time. Im sure this sacrifice will pay off in the long run

Best way to approach a bunch of techie dudes/chics (i.e., we all think we know the best way to do anything) is to introduce yourself with as much humility and self-deprecation as possible.

Example: Hi I'm Daniel and I'm a sound guy. You know that Rode videomic you mount to your 7D? I can do a slightly better job than that at recording sound but my strongest skill is offering your production perceived value. Nothing says 'my company is worth your money' like a guy with a big pole and bad shoulders.

On this forum you might try something like: Hi my name is Jason. I used to use an electric weed whacker back on the farm in Ohio so I'd love to try wrangling your audio cables...I even went to school for it (weed whacking and sound - that was the course title). I used to tape stuff to my little brother's chest all the time so I can probably lav talent. Also, I've operated boom before and only hit a couple actors (all deserved) and like 5 ceiling fans. But seriously, if anyone needs a person like me please get in touch and let me be part of your team...I'll even let you hit me with a tennis racket every time the DP and Gaffer conspire against you (tennis racket not included).

That might work...but ya never know on these here interwebs :)

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Thanks deep owl lol. I actually know someone with a rode camera mic on a boom pole. I think his dr100 has better mics tho. But this is the equipment I have to deal with since I dont have my own. Work with what you got rite? Hopefully I'll have my own rig soon. I've got a wife and 2 young kids. That and being a full time student is killing my cash for gear. The good thing is that I can write my gear off as school expenses during tax time. Im sure this sacrifice will pay off in the long run

The good news is, starting as a third, and even if you're called to boom, you don't need to have your own gear. For further reference, there is an older thread somewhere on here about what a boom op either should, or could, be expected to furnish. The bottom line requirement is "quite little," except for a great attitude and a willingness to work and stay focused.

The few things that would be helpful for you to provide are covered pretty well in that thread -- things like multi-tool, small flashlight, gloves (if you use them, many don't), your own preferred headphones (although, not usually necessary), and I believe there were a few other helpful suggestions. Hopefully, you can find the thread somewhere in the archives.

Many people (and I'm not saying you're in this category--it's a general, tangential comment) are in much too big a rush to purchase lots of equipment thinking that having the gear will make them a professional. 'Taint the case.

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