Ipad and tc buddy vs. Deneke slate - & ipad field case?

[RandyHall]

If you've used the sound report on MovieSlate (I don't remember if you have), you'll find that it's a (mostly) capable add-on. I especially like that if you have multiple iDevices and a wifi access point, you can continuously jam them to each other and the TC Buddy. Good for multiple cameras scattered about. No idea if that situation might ever arise though.

One use case that I've run into that annoys me somewhat is when using it as the primary production slate and doing filename sync (a poor man's meta data, but hey, when it works, it's freaking awesome). When camera wants to run a take MOS, the app doesn't disable sound reporting for that take, it just assumes that even though you're marking MOS on the slate, you're still rolling sound. Makes keeping a single sound/shot report pretty much a by-hand operation, which hurts my head.

MovieSlate, are you listening?

[Philip Perkins]

Me, my horse and my buggy aren't thrilled with the idea of wifi TC as master, when I can have TC boxes that will hold a jam AND provide trilevel sync signals as well as TC with frame accuracy for over 8 hours in any sort of weather and situation, including high RF and long distances between me and the camera. Any soundie on a video shoot that doesn't take a look at the camera settings for audio and sync and check the start of the jam once in a while isn't doing their job. You don't need to "touch" the camera, but you do need to make clear to the ACs that you have business with that tool just like they do.

phil p

[RandyHall]

If the camera has a TC in port, then the lockit/TC Buddy/whatever goes with it and I would assume constantly jam sync it. Meanwhile it's sending TC over wifi (and I'm not suggesting you use anything less than a real access point, powered off of whatever power system you have, with WPA2 security and no internet connection. The iPad here is supposed to work as a slate).

So far, the major problem I have with the iPad/MovieSlate/TC Buddy continuous jam over wifi is that it is a substantial drain on the iPad battery. I've addressed the battery question by using an external USB battery and velcro-ing to the back of the bundle I have (I've seen elsewhere on here that people are uppity about such hacking, but I put it together in such a way that it doesn't look hackerish (at least to me).

Honestly, WiFi is not the enemy. Publicly accessible WiFi, now THAT I wouldn't use in a million years.

[taylormadeaudio]

Me, my horse and my buggy aren't thrilled with the idea of wifi TC as master, when I can have TC boxes that will hold a jam AND provide trilevel sync signals as well as TC with frame accuracy for over 8 hours in any sort of weather and situation, including high RF and long distances between me and the camera. Any soundie on a video shoot that doesn't take a look at the camera settings for audio and sync and check the start of the jam once in a while isn't doing their job. You don't need to "touch" the camera, but you do need to make clear to the ACs that you have business with that tool just like they do.

phil p

+11

[studiomprd]

" The camera boys hate people touching the camera especially later in the day, after lunch when they are setting up again "

horse-hockey!

please tie that male cow up in some other pasture!

" Any soundie on a video shoot that doesn't take a look at the camera settings for audio and sync and check the start of the jam once in a while isn't doing their job. You don't need to "touch" the camera, but you do need to make clear to the ACs that you have business with that tool just like they do. "

this is part of the job, ours and theirs...

" and I would assume "

bad idea.

[deep owl]

Denecke or some tech/hacker type should start mod'ing iPads by putting an Ambient/Denecke high accuracy crystal in them. Not a solutions for the other problems but that would make it as jam syncable as a Denecke Slate. (I'm currently in the market for a used Denecke slate if one can be found...though that doesn't seem likely :-/)

[Jack Norflus]

I'm currently in the market for a used Denecke slate if one can be found...though that doesn't seem likely

They do pop up occasionally. Just got to keep an eye out for them because they go quick. I got a mint TS-C from a fellow JW 'er a few months back.

[RandyHall]

Denecke or some tech/hacker type should start mod'ing iPads by putting an Ambient/Denecke high accuracy crystal in them. Not a solutions for the other problems but that would make it as jam syncable as a Denecke Slate. (I'm currently in the market for a used Denecke slate if one can be found...though that doesn't seem likely :-/)

For instance, if someone were to sign up for the "Works with iPad" program that Apple has (which costs $$) and develop a timecode dongle that plugs onto the dock connector. But then, they'd sell it for $1300, which is what the Denecke slates sell for. Fail.

Tearing open an iPad is not a trivial task. Finding the oscillator and replacing it with TCXO and then being able to bolt the thing back together sounds like a quick way to turn an iPad into a cute glass-topped tray or cutting board.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcIwXVKQjsQ

[soundslikejustin]

Denecke is currently working with the MovieSlate folks (PureBlend) to improve the timecode option of their software, FWIW.

[Jaymz]

^ Movieslate already supports Timecode Buddy's Wifi TC as well. Big things happening.

[Marc Wielage]

So far, the major problem I have with the iPad/MovieSlate/TC Buddy continuous jam over wifi is that it is a substantial drain on the iPad battery.

I routinely get about 3 days out of the (very cheap) AA batteries in a Denecke TS-3. I've gone with rechargeable NiMh's in all my wireless systems, and may eventually switch over to rechargeables in the Denecke as well. If we're on exteriors the entire time, the batteries get sucked down a little faster with the slate in bright mode.

Again, speaking as a (former) post guy who had to actually use slates for syncing up material -- both film and digital -- the Denecke slates are hands-down my preference. The Ambient slates are harder to read at an angle, and the numbers are a little screwy (strictly my opinion). I don't think current LCD in-plane switching technology (as used on the iPad) is bright enough for what we need yet. Even if they can get it super-bright, then our problem is going to be battery life. The Denecke slates only have to illuminate the TC numbers (and a very low-current backlight on those models), which uses up significantly less juice than an iPad.

A friend of mine who was on the set of Avatar told me that they had that LCD panel slate (pre-iPad) on a charger about 90% of the time, with Cameron-Pace's proprietary technology for locking all the cameras, slates, and audio recorder timecodes and metadata together. Under controlled conditions, this can work well, but I don't think we're there yet for all shows.

[deep owl]

They do pop up occasionally. Just got to keep an eye out for them because they go quick. I got a mint TS-C from a fellow JW 'er a few months back.

Do you have a full size TC slate as well or do you find the TS-C adequate for any shoot? I've seen a couple TS-Cs around and meant to ask if other mixers have found that to be acceptable. Rough stuff getting booked up a ton this month and not having a TC recorder/slate.

[Jack Norflus]

For me and the work I do the TS-C is totally fine. I can even fit it nicely in my bag for run and gun doc work.

[taylormadeaudio]

I have 2 TS-C's and a TS-2... the TS-C's seem to be preferred. I worked on one episodic a while back that preferred the larger slates, but I think it was only because they had already paid for the larger sized slate covers.

There is slightly less room on the TS-C, but not enough to be considered a deterrent, and one has to get used to holding it a little closer to camera (especially wider lenses) but the feedback I've gotten (in about 5 years of using the TS-C's) all seems very positive.

~tt

[studiomprd]

" .start mod'ing iPads by putting an Ambient/Denecke high accuracy crystal in them. "

that is not simple, and...

if only it were just that, but TXCO is more than just a different crystal!

plus, modding an iPad would be a lot more than just changing a crystal, and adding a Temperature Compensation circuit (TXCO)

[stevegrider]

I talked to an AC last night and she told me her colleagues are none to happy using iPads as slates. The reasons they cite are glare issues, not bright enough outside and holding it in the wrong manner can cause the screen to go out. They also talked about it being delicate, and if they dropped it, it wouldn't survive like a Denecke would.

[al mcguire]

> if they dropped it <

more like when they drop it

it was designed to do one task and does it very well

and survives on set disasters consistently

denecke stuff holds up to abuse

[Marc Wielage]

I talked to an AC last night and she told me her colleagues are none to happy using iPads as slates. The reasons they cite are glare issues, not bright enough outside and holding it in the wrong manner can cause the screen to go out.

I forgot about the glare! Another big problem with using an LCD screen -- even an LED-backlit in-plane switching LCD like the newer iPads.

[joe foglia]

Hi Gents,

I just came across this topic. I read Robert Sharmen's points and they all make sense. I don't know if your aware, that I was the original designer of the Sound Dept Plug-in with Cliff of Pureblend. I have been working on this project with Cliff now for over 2 years.

What you see now with Movie Slate is only the tip of the iceberg. We have a much bigger picture in store. If you would like to talk with me about Time Code and Wifi please call anytime and I will be happy to tell you. You may change your views!

Thanks

Joe Foglia

818 633 4449

southeastaudio@earthlink.net

[ccsnd]

If you are a professional on professional gigs, then you should have the professional gear.

Denecke.

[joe foglia]

If you are a professional on professional gigs, then you should have the professional gear.

Denecke.

Thats not the point.

[ccsnd]

Thats not the point.

It's very much the point. If you want to do professional things, then you should use professional gear.

[MatthewFreedAudio]

It's very much the point. If you want to do professional things, then you should use professional gear.

I highly agree! I love the idea of what an iPad might be able to do in the future but right now it isn't there. I wouldn't dream of using an iPad as a TC slate because it isn't stable, it can break easily, the screen blur is a pain, and the battery can't last a whole production day. It also isn't rugged enough to be used as a slate. When a producer is paying for a slate rental they will laugh at you if you show up with an iPad as your slate...then they will replace you. A proper TC slate isn't that expensive and they last a long time. Buy one.

[ccsnd]

And just because I don't want to sound like a complete ass,

The timecode buddy / movie slate are very cool setups. I just don't think they are far enough along to be a professional tool, and I don't believe they are acceptable in a professional environment.

[Matt Bacon AMPS]

May I also make the point that while the TimecodeBuddy system can transmit Timecode over WIFI if you'd prefer to attach one to each camera/sound device that needs TC (as you'd do with a traditional Lockit) then you can do this as well - the wifi being a bonus!