So now we got health care

[bigmaho]

Just curious what they would have wanted included or removed from the plan?

[RadoStefanov]

I blame the hospitals and doctors just as much as the insurance companies for the current state of health care. But nobody dares say anything about them because they have big voting power.

IMHO the food, chemical, oil, coal and car companies have to pickup the bill.

MAINLY THE FOOD CORPORATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BIG Tabaco pays penalties for healthcare and yet more people die because of a bad diet.

Ben and Jerry PAY for HEALTH CARE !!!

Also more people get lung cancer because of pollution and only Big Tabaco pays for it.

Chevron/exxon mobile/SHell/ BP PAY FOR HEALTH CARE.

[RadoStefanov]

but I'm not quite ready to shed tears for the poor doctors quite yet. Where I come from they're still driving Benzes and Audis, while I take the subway.

+1

[Darrell Henke]

I'm all for government provided health care as long as we all get the same coverage as congress gets.

[jrd456]

Obama's health care will probably get messed with, but you've got to admire his cajones for taking on such a huge,ugly deal.

No longer can health care be swept under the rug,now that now that it's on everybody's mind and lips.

J.D.

[Q]

I'm all for government provided health care as long as we all get the same coverage as congress gets.

So, I guess that means you support the Affordable Care Act?

Members of Congress and their staff have access to the same health care as all US Federal employees. They have payments and deductibles just like the rest of us, but they have access to many more plans than the average American. Beginning in 2014, under the Affordable Care Act, Members of Congress and their staff will be limited to using the same insurance exchanges the rest of us will have access to.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/12/08/congress-exempted-from-obamacare/

[jrd456]

Yes,I support the Affordable Care Act,though I would have liked the single payer system,it would have made it a lot cheaper and have gotten rid of the f*ckin' insurance companies.

J.D.

[geordi]

Single payer will be the next step, once the general populace finally realizes that there were two main components to this behemoth of a bill:

1: Everyone must become a sucke--Customer of the insurance industry, to lower the costs for everyone.

2: There is NO COMPULSION anywhere in the bill for the insurance industry to lower costs at all.

When they continue to charge whatever they bleeding well want, and people realize that they are WELL AND TRULY being screwed not by their medical practitioners, but by the fecking insurance scammers (Who will probably STILL be crying for tort reform against farcical "massive insurance fraud") all while they raise rates on everyone... People will finally say ENOUGH and demand a single payer system.

It took massive amounts of abuse by the lenders before they consolidated the student loan lending into the government Direct Loans program. Do I think that solved THAT problem? Far from it... But listen to how much Sallie Mae (A PRIVATE BANK!) screeched before it was done, and you start to get a picture that they KNEW they were caught abusing the students with high fees and front-loading the interest payments. Now... Everyone who wants to get guaranteed loan payments pays into the big pot, and Direct Loans doles it out to the students. Is it perfect? No, it does nothing for the overall debt load... But the individual abuse by the banksters has been mostly cut off.

As with this health plan... It is a start.

[RandyHall]

As with this health plan... It is a start.

I remember the rhetoric at the signing of the bill, that it was a "first step" toward what should be the best possible solution.

Personally, I'd be for single payer, but after the howling and shouting the Tea Party did at town halls that lead to such backlash, they all treat single payer as the electric third rail.

[geordi]

I agree with you about all the howling... And I think we will have a MUCH better idea of where the mainstream minds are about the lunatic fringe after Mitt "Etch-a-sketch" Romney announces his VP selection.

I've heard noises in recent days that Madame Batshit herself, Bachmann thinks she is worthy of being a heartbeat away from the Oval Office. I think Mitt's handlers are savvy enough to keep her name on the list, if only to keep the wingnut faction that follows her happy. If he actually goes and pulls a McCain and selects her... That will be giving credence to those fools and the Republican party truly will be lost to insanity.

I'm obviously not a fan of the right wing fools, but I would hope that the rest of the party would decide to rejoin at least the PROCESS and be a little more willing to compromise in ways other than the "You give up everything, and we give up nothing" way they have ruined the process recently. That can't happen until they tell the looneys where the exit is. Unfortunately, the looneys showed up and elected people, which is all the Republicans care about - taking control again.

If our own recent voting turnout is any indication... The Democrats are in a bad way. If Mitt caters to the wingnuts and selects Ms. Batshit... We might be doomed.

[RandyHall]

I agree with you about all the howling... And I think we will have a MUCH better idea of where the mainstream minds are about the lunatic fringe after Mitt "Etch-a-sketch" Romney announces his VP selection.

I've heard noises in recent days that Madame Batshit herself, Bachmann thinks she is worthy of being a heartbeat away from the Oval Office. I think Mitt's handlers are savvy enough to keep her name on the list, if only to keep the wingnut faction that follows her happy. If he actually goes and pulls a McCain and selects her... That will be giving credence to those fools and the Republican party truly will be lost to insanity.

I'm obviously not a fan of the right wing fools, but I would hope that the rest of the party would decide to rejoin at least the PROCESS and be a little more willing to compromise in ways other than the "You give up everything, and we give up nothing" way they have ruined the process recently. That can't happen until they tell the looneys where the exit is. Unfortunately, the looneys showed up and elected people, which is all the Republicans care about - taking control again.

If our own recent voting turnout is any indication... The Democrats are in a bad way. If Mitt caters to the wingnuts and selects Ms. Batshit... We might be doomed.

Yes, their "my way or the highway" politics have been particularly tiresome. Not that the Democrats aren't equally culpable in the current mess, but at least they're trying to come up with ideas that actually appeal to the center. I'm sure the more conservative folks on here feel that the "libtards" are on a mission to tax and spend every nickel they can steal from the middle class. Sigh, the rhetoric really does get old.

[Jay Rose]

There is NO COMPULSION anywhere in the bill for the insurance industry to lower costs at all.

Amazes me to hear people bring up that argument. Isn't the whole point of capitalism, and the 'invisible hand of the marketplace', that competition will always compel the lowest price and most efficient operation? Both Romneycare and Obamacare encourage competition among insurance companies, by making it easier to switch carriers.

Bear in mind, both systems limit insurance company overhead and profits to a set percentage of premiums; the rest absolutely has to go for patient benefits. But that's setting a maximum price. Competition will take care of the minimum.

[jrd456]

Amazes me to hear people bring up that argument. Isn't the whole point of capitalism, and the 'invisible hand of the marketplace', that competition will always compel the lowest price and most efficient operation? Both Romneycare and Obamacare encourage competition among insurance companies, by making it easier to switch carriers.

Bear in mind, both systems limit insurance company overhead and profits to a set percentage of premiums; the rest absolutely has to go for patient benefits. But that's setting a maximum price. Competition will take care of the minimum.

The insurance company's already show a very small percentage of there income to be profit.They are genius's at "cookin' the books".Remember,there driving force is making money and there good at it.

J.D.

[OmahaAudio]

Isn't the whole point of capitalism, and the 'invisible hand of the marketplace', that competition will always compel the lowest price and most efficient operation?

That's the theory, but it never happens that way. The 'invisible hand of the marketplace" is a myth.

[Jay Rose]

The 'invisible hand of the marketplace" is a myth.

I don't believe that. It's real... but is never given a chance.

Whenever there's an opportunity for collusion, gaming the system, or taking advantage of insider knowledge... the marketplace's hands are tied. (Can you say "Libor"?) Greed trumps the invisible hand every time.

No, my point is that the very same people who point to that invisible hand as the cure-all when they want to eliminate regulation, also say Obamacare is no good because it relies on the invisible hand to lower prices.

The insurance company's already show a very small percentage of there income to be profit.They are genius's at "cookin' the books".

Actually Obama/Romneycare -- they're pretty much the same set of laws -- has already resulted in insurance companies having to give back money because more than the legal percentage was going to overhead and profit. As I posted earlier, a whole lot of folks in Massachusetts just got rebates, because their insurance company wasn't paying at least 85% of their premiums back in benefits. This isn't just urban myth: I'm one of the people who got a refund.

(BTW, it's a good thing internal politics is forcing Romney to run away from taking any credit for Mass Health. He was Gov when it passed... but the process started under Dukakis. Remember Dukakiis? How about Willie Horton?)

[OmahaAudio]

The "invisible hand of the marketplace" is a concept thought up by Adam Smith with little or no basis in fact.

It's like religion. It's a belief without the backing of scientific data or study. If you believe that the piece of bread in your hand has been transformed into actual human flesh or that Xanu killed millions of beings 75000000 years ago or even that after you die your soul will inhabit a ferret because you've been a bad boy then the whole "invisible hand" thing makes perfect sense.

If you look at what actually happens in markets, large and small, you'll treat it as the BS it really is. "The Marketplace" tends towards unfairness and monopolies unless said markets are restrained and regulated by an outside force, usually government. "The Marketplace" becomes more fair (i.e. allowing more people to access the market and obtain goods or services at a price they can afford to pay) the more it is regulated.

The corollary to this idea is that there are fewer chances for individuals to make very large profits and very large fortunes, so fewer billionaires means more successful members of the working and middle classes and fewer poor people. It's the kind of thing that many of the world's historic moral leaders (Jesus of Nazareth, Muhammad of Mecca, etc.) were into. It all about balance.

[atheisticmystic]

The "invisible hand of the marketplace" is a concept thought up by Adam Smith with little or no basis in fact.

It's like religion. It's a belief without the backing of scientific data or study. If you believe that the piece of bread in your hand has been transformed into actual human flesh or that Xanu killed millions of beings 75000000 years ago or even that after you die your soul will inhabit a ferret because you've been a bad boy then the whole "invisible hand" thing makes perfect sense.

If you look at what actually happens in markets, large and small, you'll treat it as the BS it really is. "The Marketplace" tends towards unfairness and monopolies unless said markets are restrained and regulated by an outside force, usually government. "The Marketplace" becomes more fair (i.e. allowing more people to access the market and obtain goods or services at a price they can afford to pay) the more it is regulated.

The corollary to this idea is that there are fewer chances for individuals to make very large profits and very large fortunes, so fewer billionaires means more successful members of the working and middle classes and fewer poor people. It's the kind of thing that many of the world's historic moral leaders (Jesus of Nazareth, Muhammad of Mecca, etc.) were into. It all about balance.

This