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Camera Hop Options on a budget


Jeff Babb

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I will go heretical here and say that I use hops w/o a return all the time, and that virtually none of the shooters I work with will wear even an earbud, and even if they did wouldn't be paying attention to what they heard anyhow. The good ones keep an occasional eye on the onscreen audio meters (is there signal there?), and I tail-check playbacks after interviews and once in awhile during media changes. That's what they want. They don't want another device on the camera, and I don't want the further mystery of whether an RF issue I might hear in a return is a transmit or return problem. The key to this: roll a back up, jam sync to TC if you can and keep some notes about what action/people/etc are in what audio file, and either download your files w/ notes to their computer and/or burn a DVD and hand it over. You also do good research about what plausible hop frequencies are for where you are working, do RX tests when you get there, and be coordinated with your own gear so you aren't stepping on yourself. Since file-based recording came in, allowing a cheap backup recording, I've had a hop problem maybe a handful of times, and was always able to tell the editor which audio file to grab from my stuff and resync them to the camera tracks. No one in verite video wants to drag a cable anymore, and on higher class productions the subject doesn't even come up for discussion. The mixer-camera connection is going to be wireless, unless it's a sit-down interview.

phil p

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I run a camera hop with two Sennheiser 2000-systems sending to camera and one G3 for return. I also have a Zoom H1 connected to my mixer for back up. The G3 is also feeding two ifbs, so I might aswell have a receiver for it too.

Running a return feed is both a releaf to me and the cam op, since it takes them out of the equation. They can listen, if they want to, and I always know I got good audio on camera (wich is what production really wants).

I run the recorder, but most days I just delete the files, since I've heard the cam audio all day and know whats on there. If there's a problem during a take that's unrepetable (as in most reality tv), I just tell the producer at the end of the day:

"There were some problems during this take. If you're gonna use that particular bit, just give me a call and I'll send you the files". And those files I save. That has happened once in the last year.

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I often work on jobs with hops to camera, no return, and no backup.

Many reality shows are setup this way. If the gear is setup properly with no malfunctioning parts, it works. Always check the power cables for intermittent continuity, that seems to be the first thing that will go. Especially if it's not your gear.

Even if you mention to a producer that there was a problem at such and such time but don't worry I made a back up the likely situation is that the editors just won't use that section of audio, you'll never hear about it and everything just keeps going forward.

Now if you shoot a whole scene with the hops out of commission... Then you might hear about it!

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Yeah, i've also worked on a few reality shoots running hops with no return and no back up (not my own gear). My cam op was pretty good at alerting me the one time we had a major problem, so it worked fine.

On the other hand, another team, on the same production, managed to screw up two complete XDCAM discs full of material, due to a faulty tx connector and the cam op just checking the levels visually in the display (no headphones). That team was not popular with the producers.

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Yeah, i've also worked on a few reality shoots running hops with no return and no back up (not my own gear). My cam op was pretty good at alerting me the one time we had a major problem, so it worked fine.

On the other hand, another team, on the same production, managed to screw up two complete XDCAM discs full of material, due to a faulty tx connector and the cam op just checking the levels visually in the display (no headphones). That team was not popular with the producers.

I have been in the same boat. Camera ops wouldn't wear headphones, so we never knew quite when a problem would pop up. Production wanted me to use their kit (mixer, no recorder), so there was not much I could do. We used a Zaxcom hop, but they didn't go for the TRX with the recorder option. Ooops! Sounded great in my headphones, just a downer that nobody else would ever hear that audio.

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I have never had an issue with my Zaxcom hop. I'll usually record a backup of important interviews and interactions to my recorder just in case, but on reality or news shows with fast turn around times usually production doesn't even want it. I'll charge rental for the recorder if production specifically asks for a recorded back up, but if I'm using it just to cover my own arse in the case of failure then I don't charge. I've never had that call from post (yet) that the sound is missing or messed up, but if they do, then I'll have the backup available for a short time after the shoot. I'd probably suggest that maybe they budget to rent a recorder next time so that they would have the back up right away instead of having to wait for me to get it to them.

I always ask politely if the camera op doesn't mind wearing a head set or earbuds- not to actually monitor the sound, but just to alert me if there is an obvious problem- Battery dies or if a switch get flipped from Line level to Mic level by accident etc. Some will wear it and some refuse. Some say that they will wear the headset, but never actually put it on.

If the camera is of the type that pushes its own power- Anton Bauer D tap or Hirose power tap then power is not really an issue, but if I'm using internal AAs because they are shooting on something like an EX3 of HVX then I am more insistent that camera op is at least listening out in case the batteries go down. Obviously I know my batteries will last about six hours, but I'll switch them at a convenient time after about three and a half hours, but you never know if you have that occasional bad battery. I'll also take every opportunity to check the visual audio meters on the camera- not so easy on prosumer cameras that don't have an LCD on the side.

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I am shocked by the amount of gigs being described here that rely on wireless hops as their main source of audio.

I would never accept a job where my reputation rested on important audio being wirelessly bounced around the room from/to various sources with no real means of quality control. I use wireless hops as scratch track audio ONLY. The camera, as far as I'm concerned, is the backup - Their audio components are usually substandard anyways...

If the production cannot pay for a recorder for controllable audio, then I would insist on being tethered to the camera ops. (You'd be surprised how quickly they find some extra $$ after the camera ops complain about their cumbersome shadow.)

I'm also of the mindset (when shooting or doing sound) that you never give the production anything bad that they might use. In the end, Its my name and rep at stake.

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If the production cannot pay for a recorder for controllable audio, then I would insist on being tethered to the camera ops. (You'd be surprised how quickly they find some extra $$ after the camera ops complain about their cumbersome shadow.)

Totally cool that you can do that and make it work. But that approach won't fly with many of the people and companies I work with. They want sound on picture, either because of tight deadlines or perceived ease of post. I'm not a floor mat, but I also don't want to be perceived as a prima donna. With care and perhaps some luck, my clients end up with good audio.

Sure, I may approach things differently when I'm producing. But when I'm a hired gun, I'll discuss and suggest....and then go with what the client decides.

Jim

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I firmly believe if the cam op wants to be untethered, monitoring what's being recorded is the price they pay. I try to tactfully establish that at the beginning of any shoot that wants to roll that way. That being said, some cam ops are not going to comply, no matter what. I ALWAYS roll a high bitrate mp3 recorder in my bag just in case. Some shooters only listen to the onboard speaker which can mean they aren't going to be able to differentiate from the cam mic versus what I'm sending. Folks can and do get fired over that stuff.

I personally don't see the value in hanging more gear on the cam to send me a return. If there's hits, it'll be maddening to determine whether it was talent, my hop or the return. I just stay diligent about checking the cam to eyeball the switches and levels. Luckily I'm currently on a show where the shooter is very good about monitoring.

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I am shocked by the amount of gigs being described here that rely on wireless hops as their main source of audio.

I would never accept a job where my reputation rested on important audio being wirelessly bounced around the room from/to various sources with no real means of quality control. I use wireless hops as scratch track audio ONLY. The camera, as far as I'm concerned, is the backup - Their audio components are usually substandard anyways...

If the production cannot pay for a recorder for controllable audio, then I would insist on being tethered to the camera ops. (You'd be surprised how quickly they find some extra $$ after the camera ops complain about their cumbersome shadow.)

I'm also of the mindset (when shooting or doing sound) that you never give the production anything bad that they might use. In the end, Its my name and rep at stake.

I've been recording almost exclusively single system for years; mostly tethered, sometimes wireless. If the latter, I roll an inexpensive, non TC bitbucket, just in case.

I give production companies audio they'll be happy with so that they'll come back. It's not my sound. Never has been, never will be.

I also think one's reputation has little to do with 24 bit audio.

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I am shocked by the amount of gigs being described here that rely on wireless hops as their main source of audio.

I would never accept a job where my reputation rested on important audio being wirelessly bounced around the room from/to various sources with no real means of quality control. I use wireless hops as scratch track audio ONLY. The camera, as far as I'm concerned, is the backup - Their audio components are usually substandard anyways...

If the production cannot pay for a recorder for controllable audio, then I would insist on being tethered to the camera ops. (You'd be surprised how quickly they find some extra $$ after the camera ops complain about their cumbersome shadow.)

I'm also of the mindset (when shooting or doing sound) that you never give the production anything bad that they might use. In the end, Its my name and rep at stake.

Yeah, and in a perfect world, we'd all be running Nomads, dual system, and recording in sound proofed studios. You do realise that you're in a thread titled "Camera hop options on a budget", right? Different shows have different budgets and priorites and having that attitude would basicly get you a "Ok, then we'll call someone else" from most production companies I work with. If they want audio on camera, that's it, end of story.

On the shows I do, it's often me pushing for a hop over going with a cable to camera. Not for the cam ops convenience, but for my freedom to do a better job. I do alot of reality shows following the police, ambulances, in hospitals, inside clubs, or running around in thick forrest or jungle. In many cases a cable would be a serious threat to me, my cam op or bystanders. Further more, a hop allows me to get even closer in those tricky situations, in the middle of the chaos, getting much better sound, than if I'd been tethered to the cam op as his "cumbersome shadow".

Good audio isn't just about the cleanest signal path, it's about where you're able to place your mic.

And as for "...no real means of quality control." In own my kit I have a backup recorder AND a wireless return feed. If there is a minor problem, I ask for them to do it again. If, in a situation that can't be done again, I got the backup files. I go to bed KNOWING I got good audio.

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Yeah, and in a perfect world, we'd all be running Nomads, dual system, and recording in sound proofed studios. You do realise that you're in a thread titled "Camera hop options on a budget", right? Different shows have different budgets and priorites and having that attitude would basicly get you a "Ok, then we'll call someone else" from most production companies I work with. If they want audio on camera, that's it, end of story.

And as for "...no real means of quality control." In own my kit I have a backup recorder AND a wireless return feed. If there is a minor problem, I ask for them to do it again. If, in a situation that can't be done again, I got the backup files. I go to bed KNOWING I got good audio.

Of course I understand the thread topic, my point was simply that I am surprised that ANY production company would rely on wireless hops as their ONLY option. That seems highly pound foolish.

Sure - most of you that work in these situations are running bitbucket backups, but are they paying you for your extra gear? If so, then my concern is not with you or those jobs. If you're not charging for the recorder then you are doing yourself (and the rest of us) a great disservice. The production now thinks they can hire you for "hop only audio" knowing that you are going to supply your own backup - for free.

Regardless, all of this is irrelevant as it is straying from the topic. Budget Wireless Hops. There are many to choose from, depending on their intended use... which IMHO should be strictly for scratch track. Any company producing a broadcast reality-type show or documentary should put the quality of the audio before any perceived "ease in post production." (Which I believe is BS anyways... Any editor that thinks dropping an audio file under the video will break the schedule is just lazy.)

Forgive me for wanting the best quality of audio (mic placement, of course, as well as bit rate) for a project that bears my name in the credits... Thats just me!

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Sure - most of you that work in these situations are running bitbucket backups, but are they paying you for your extra gear? If so, then my concern is not with you or those jobs. If you're not charging for the recorder then you are doing yourself (and the rest of us) a great disservice. The production now thinks they can hire you for "hop only audio" knowing that you are going to supply your own backup - for free.

It's not a Nomad or a 788T. It's a $200 recorder. I also don't charge extra for my $150 dolly, $120 in sound blankets, and probably $1500 in cables, adaptors, tools, and assorted doohickeys. I'm not giving anything away, it's part of the basic kit that they pay for.

Forgive me for wanting the best quality of audio (mic placement, of course, as well as bit rate) for a project that bears my name in the credits... Thats just me!

I did a doc series with a host/presenter. I wasn't available on one of the host days, so the production company hired a guy who insisted on a hair placement for the lav. The director later told me he thought that it required way too much fussing. That guy may have gotten better audio than me, but he was never called back. Quality audio, sure. Within reason. I get paid to please my clients, not myself.

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If you're not charging for the recorder then you are doing yourself (and the rest of us) a great disservice. The production now thinks they can hire you for "hop only audio" knowing that you are going to supply your own backup - for free.

My serenity far outweighs the $120 I spent on a Zoom H2 years ago. I've yet to have to provide audio I've backed up on the hop gigs, but I still sleep better because of it. My employers don't expect me to provide backups, anyway.

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The thing to remember on these gigs is: If they are providing the kit, they rented it from / with the camera package, and they know what gear they expect you to do the job with. If the client isn't concerned enough about the possibility of a wireless hit borking some audio... Why would I lose sleep over it?

The poster above who mentioned that the editor probably just won't use that piece of footage where a glitch might exist, I think has nailed it - They are recording HOURS AND HOURS of footage, for something that will end up at 43 minutes or less in length. They have so much option for leaving problems on the cutting room floor, they probably DO think it is easier and faster to not have to re-sync even a couple files if they can avoid it.

When you are dealing with these projects... Do what the client wants. I pressed (politely) for good audio and a multi-track recording on a reality project where I did have a recorder (552 only) and didn't / couldn't give the client the stereo hop they wanted b/c they also wanted multiple lavs available for "talent" to use... (Only had 5 Lectros for 4 talent). I was doing what I was asked, but I was also raising their stress level by not being able to meet their unrealistic requirements without the proper gear. I was replaced.

Do what the client wants. If the client wants a wireless hop, give it to them, and don't worry about your confidence recording unless they have asked for it (and are paying for it) because if they don't know it exists, they won't ever think to use it.

The biggest thing I have found that these reality crews want beyond a wireless hop (IF the camera is even capable of audio at all) is Comteks. THAT is the first thing they demand, and WILL GET YOU REPLACED if you can't provide them. Happened to a buddy of mine, and almost happened to me on a different gig.

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  • 7 months later...

Cheers for the response Tom (it appeared fine when it was forwarded to my email address but in the forum all I can see is the quoted text).

 

The IEM G3 Manual says:

 

 

You can use a remote antenna when the transmitter position is not the best antenna position for optimum transmission. You can choose between two antennas:


• A 2003 UHF passive directional antenna


• A 1031 passive omni-directional antenna

 

I am not 100% what is best and by having a look at both the antennas it seems to me that the omni-directional antenna is better (the omni being the giveaway), although I am not sure why the 2003 UHF Antenna carries a heavier price tag (I am guessing that UHF and Wideband might be the secret ingredients here).

 

At any rate, this solution looks like a a bit of a hassle. Just thought I made grab on of them now and it might make it in the card some years down the line. 

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I am just about to purchase an other G3 for use as a camera hop. But I just wanted to ask first:

Can one put a Sennheiser IEM G3 in the bag with a remote antenna, powered by an NP1 solution?

Are referring to the rackmount transmitter which can transmit stereo? Then yes you shoud be able to build a cable that can supply 12v to the transmitter from an NP1 but it is not terribly portable.

Sennheiser offer a mains powered adapter for the G3 portable TX/RX if that is what you mean. Can't remember the model but will be on their site as an accessory to the G3 range.

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Are referring to the rackmount transmitter which can transmit stereo? Then yes you shoud be able to build a cable that can supply 12v to the transmitter from an NP1 but it is not terribly portable.

Sennheiser offer a mains powered adapter for the G3 portable TX/RX if that is what you mean. Can't remember the model but will be on their site as an accessory to the G3 range.

 

It is not so much the powering up that baffles me but the antenna for it.

 

If the IEM is to sit in my Petrol Bag then, the antenna that the unit comes with will be at the bottom. So, I would have to get another antenna and mount it somewhere on the bag.

 

You know what the more I think about it, I'd rather sell my current kit, get a Nomad 6 and the IFB unit and be on my merry way. This is way too-too much! : )

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