OmahaAudio Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 What would be the better next purchase, assuming I don't own either, a sync box like an SB-3 or a smart slate like a TS-3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewFreedAudio Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 They serve different purposes. Do you need a smart slate more often or a LockIt? What do your client request more frequently? What will party for itself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 What do your client request more frequently? What will party for itself? I hate it when my lockits start partying in the middle of a shoot. I think you're more likely to get use out of lockits, personally, but yes, it depends on what jobs you're doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 taking what Matthew said plus my own experiences, if I did it again I would have gotten the slate. I've had far more requests for a slate than I have for a lockit, however you'll be glad you have both eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT Groove Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Slate first, then Sync Box. Not all cameras can accept a sync box. All cameras can shoot a slate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Slate first, then Sync Box. Not all cameras can accept a sync box. All cameras can shoot a slate. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewFreedAudio Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 They serve different purposes. Do you need a smart slate more often or a LockIt? What do your client request more frequently? What will party for itself? Ha...darn typos. It was supposed to say "What will pay for itself?" as I'm sure you all figured out. An excellent point was made that all cameras can shoot a slate but not all can accept TC input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmahaAudio Posted July 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 What do your client request more frequently? I haven't had anyone ask for one yet but I'm trying to get ahead of things and be able to offer more and so, perhaps, get better gigs. Slate first, then Sync Box. Not all cameras can accept a sync box. All cameras can shoot a slate. Excellent thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 On every job I have done requiring lockits, they have come with the camera. On the show I'm on now, they were "included" with the package, so I couldn't even try to compete on price and rent mine, if I owned any. I also like the idea of lockits being camera equipment, as they are attached to the camera. Honestly, since slates rarely yield additional rental, I think they should come with the camera package too. Especially considering the abuse they take. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 I'm currently negotiating for an upcoming feature, and that's one of the points of contention I've raised -- I don't plan on providing my slates and sync boxes unless production pays for them - beyond my (already discounted) kit rental. If they don't want to rent them from me, I'll gladly provide the timecode to whatever units they do wind up getting. I'm just not going to continue including them as part of the Sound package -- the wear and tear, the batteries (especially when the greenhorn AC's insist on walking around set with the slates open all day)... too many other actual sound-related issues to deal with besides that headache. They know I have them -- and I'll rent them for an extremely competitive rate, but I won't just include them. ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Green Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 I'm currently negotiating for an upcoming feature, and that's one of the points of contention I've raised -- I don't plan on providing my slates and sync boxes unless production pays for them - beyond my (already discounted) kit rental. If they don't want to rent them from me, I'll gladly provide the timecode to whatever units they do wind up getting. I'm just not going to continue including them as part of the Sound package -- the wear and tear, the batteries (especially when the greenhorn AC's insist on walking around set with the slates open all day)... too many other actual sound-related issues to deal with besides that headache. They know I have them -- and I'll rent them for an extremely competitive rate, but I won't just include them. ~tt AMEN to dat! The last 2 features I've mixed (SAG ultra low budget) they didn't have the money for the full package and I didn't go out of my way to give freebies. I did it old school- mixer, booms, 4 wires and recording on Tascam HD-P2 with the old 'clap' slate. My argument was- after all they've been doing films that way for over 50 years before time code. And what do you know they had good sound. Stick to your guns Taylor. JM2-cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrd456 Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Of course a TC Slate----Sync boxes should be a piece of camera equipt.---Think about it.I hate the fact that sound mixers started to provide TC boxes and now it's become more common and more responsibility.You need to think more about getting good sound. camera used to provide the slate.I hate watching a piece of my equipt. being dropped onto a cement floor--how 'bout you. J.D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 You'll end up with both eventually. Slates are the more obviously useful choice as was pointed out--they can work on a wide variety of jobs. Sync boxes are more specialized, but on those sorts of jobs just as necessary. In LA they may come with camera rentals, but that is not the case at all elsewhere--the local video camera rental house will very possibly NOT own them, so if they are needed for a job then you can rent them to the production (as an alternative to renting from out of town). phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Foy Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Not sure about the US but as far as I'm concerned in Australia at least, TC is the responsibility of the Sound Department and therefore all TC equipment should be as well for a number of reasons not least of all to ensure TC continuity. Traditionally the sound recording device has always been the TC Master and looking forward to the latest recording devices available from Zaxcom for example, you will notice that the Nomad has built in TC control abilities and enhancements such as ZaxNet where again the recording device is not only the Master but also the Distributer of TC, Metadata etc. I currently use and supply a Denecke TS-3 Slate and SB-3 Lockit Boxes if required. I will on occasion provide them for free such as on a 'Charity' shoot or similar but otherwise they don't come out of the case unless they are paid for by Production. They are extra's to my base kit/rate and have proven to be a good little earner for me, well worth the initial outlay, almost non existent maintenance and modest insurance premium increase. From an increased workload/responsibility point of view, they are negligible. In the present climate of cost cutting and crew reductions it seems to me that this is a very simple way of making the Sound Department more robust by 'Value Adding' as long as you don't make the mistake of supplying it for free or including it in your base rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHall Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 In the present climate of cost cutting and crew reductions it seems to me that this is a very simple way of making the Sound Department more robust by 'Value Adding' as long as you don't make the mistake of supplying it for free or including it in your base rate. It does raise the question of "how much extra can you usually get for renting the gear as add-ons?" I'm trying to assess if a slate and or lockit is in my near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldmixer Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 15$ per timecode box is what seems to be the going rate here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Use both Slate for syncing accurately TC box for auto syncing by software Also ads two items on the rental bill! mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Not sure about the US but as far as I'm concerned in Australia at least, TC is the responsibility of the Sound Department and therefore all TC equipment should be as well for a number of reasons not least of all to ensure TC continuity. Traditionally the sound recording device has always been the TC Master and looking forward to the latest recording devices available from Zaxcom for example, you will notice that the Nomad has built in TC control abilities and enhancements such as ZaxNet where again the recording device is not only the Master but also the Distributer of TC, Metadata etc. I currently use and supply a Denecke TS-3 Slate and SB-3 Lockit Boxes if required. I will on occasion provide them for free such as on a 'Charity' shoot or similar but otherwise they don't come out of the case unless they are paid for by Production. They are extra's to my base kit/rate and have proven to be a good little earner for me, well worth the initial outlay, almost non existent maintenance and modest insurance premium increase. From an increased workload/responsibility point of view, they are negligible. In the present climate of cost cutting and crew reductions it seems to me that this is a very simple way of making the Sound Department more robust by 'Value Adding' as long as you don't make the mistake of supplying it for free or including it in your base rate. In the US SB3s aren't considered a "Lockit". Usually the term "Lockit" implies the ability to output a sync signal along with TC, as with the Ambient boxes or Denecke SBT. And yes, they can be a source of rate bumps if the production understands their value. phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHall Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 In the US SB3s aren't considered a "Lockit". Usually the term "Lockit" implies the ability to output a sync signal along with TC, as with the Ambient boxes or Denecke SBT. And yes, they can be a source of rate bumps if the production understands their value. phil p So you're saying there needs to be genlock in order to count as a lockit? I thought the whole point of a timecode box (at least in this thread) was syncing sound to picture, not multiple cameras to each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 " it depends " cha-ching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHall Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 " it depends " cha-ching I gather you get a commission each time the phrase is used Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 " it depends " cha-ching couldn't resist... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 So you're saying there needs to be genlock in order to count as a lockit? I thought the whole point of a timecode box (at least in this thread) was syncing sound to picture, not multiple cameras to each other. Yes. You can't sync sound to picture if the clock of the camera is drifting in comparison to that of the audio device. They have to be locked to clocks running at the same rate, to about 3 decimal places in order to hold sync all day. That is why Lockits output both TC and sync signals. phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan chiles Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Absolutely depends on what your clients are asking for Jim. If they are not asking you for any TC gear then save your dollars for something that you do need often.. that would be my advice. Here in South Africa I tend to get decent rental on my SB-T and TS-C slate and its worth having them. They get abused but luckily Denecke has built them tough. The slate does a lot more days than the SB-T but thats the jobs that I work on. Now with film being gone and Alexa being the camera of choice its less necessary (for me) to have any of this stuff.. I miss film Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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