bendybones Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Does anyone else find it cumbersome to turn off mirroring in order to change the folder being mirrored to? Couldn't the turning off and back on of the mirroring function happen automatically in Nomad behind the scenes? In fact I find it cumbersome to need to change the "Folder To Mirror". In the "Folder To Mirror" menu, I would like the first entry to be "All". Selecting this would have Nomad mirror any folder where a file is recorded or changed (much like many PC/Mac backup utilities). That way I could have several folders on Primary (ep1day1, ep1day2, ep1wild, etc) and change my current folder as appropriate without having the additional 3 steps of turning off mirroring, choosing new folder to mirror, and turning mirroring back on. Does anyone else want this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Whereas "Mirror all updates and changes" would be a nice option for a given folder, I think making something like that global might be too dangerous. However, even for a given folder, it would require some major rewriting of the way the Deva/Fusion/Nomad stable of machines handles mirroring, and keeps track of what's been mirrored and what hasn't (it appears to primarily use a "last file mirrored" flag). The same method has basically been deployed since the original Deva II and, once understood, becomes a valued friend. I tend to maintain a separate folder per each day and each job. I don't want every file on every folder to be put on a specific client's mirrored card, especially not accidentally. IMO, the key is to become familiar with a Deva/Fusion/Nomad, how it works, and all its quirks, then enjoy the power that it brings. If Zaxcom is constantly changing how our machines operate, it will make life more difficult for many of us who just want to rely on a given device working the way we know as we focus on getting good sound. Mirroring definitely fits into that category as it's a bit quirky, but awesome in its ability once one is familiar with what it will and won't do and the "tricks" to using its power. I'm not saying that changes shouldn't be implemented or considered. I think it's great that Zaxcom keeps a list of suggestions and, over time, some of these will help improve our equipment. I just don't want a piece of gear that requires me to constantly relearn how it works. (DISCLAIMER: If any of that sounded at all like a slam, it wasn't meant that way. I tend to offer responses that often include general comments (mini-rants) that reference way beyond the initial discussion, and such as in this case, they're certainly not aimed toward any one person.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callou Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 understanding that the Zaxcom way is what it is and won't be rewrite , i think an option to auto update metadata change on the mirror card would be very helpful for a lot of folks. added to the lack of keyboard on the nomad, changing the slate of a previous take (or something else) and mirroring it right away ( not to forget later ) takes way too long IMO... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendybones Posted July 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 I mostly agree with your points here John. And some of them don't necessarily rule out the type of mirroring I would like to see. Just a couple of questions.. Whereas "Mirror all updates and changes" would be a nice option for a given folder, Forgive me I haven't tested this yet, is this not what Nomad does to a given folder once it has been selected for mirroring? ... ie mirroring metadata changes that are made to say segment 6 after I have already recorded segment 10? I think making something like that global might be too dangerous. Just so I understand, what would be the danger? The only potential danger I could see is that there may be files from other jobs on the mirror card which the downloader may mistakenly take. I can see how that could be a worry. Not a dealbreaker for me tho as it should be easy enough to clear up with at the start of the job. I tend to maintain a separate folder per each day and each job. I'm interested in other people's workflows - so, per day, you have just one folder with all takes and wild tracks together? If Zaxcom is constantly changing how our machines operate, it will make life more difficult for many of us who just want to rely on a given device working the way we know as we focus on getting good sound. I agree completely. However, I would like to see the 'addition' of this feature rather than changing the way it currently works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom williams Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 I agree with John here, every day is a new folder and however many discs or cards that are delivered live inside that folder. It makes it easy to go and dig something up for post when all they tell you is the line they want is from day 11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 I have no idea how the software works and what it would take, but if I go back an change metadata on a take, it would be nice for it to somehow auto re-mirror that file. As for the overall mirroring process, it makes sense to me now. Initially it seemed odd, but once I got my head around the logic, it makes perfect sense and is really thought out. The thing I have always wanted is some way to, not while recording, name the next track. I am always set so I can edit current recording (to change scene/take in case the slate is not what I expect, or add notes). When getting ready for the next shot, setup, whatever I would like to add that info. Not while it is happening and I am mixing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Martin Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 Yea. A way to update the metadata changes for a given folder would be great. Waiting to Re-mirror an entire folder of audio at the end of a long ENG day when I just want to pack up and leave is a pain. I like to be the first to hand my card over to the DIT so I don't get stuck in line behind cameras last couple of cards to dump. Having to remirror the whole days audio as opposed to just metadata info puts me last in line. For the original mirroring question, I like the idea. Maybe just having a way to check next to multiple folders would be an easy addition? Hitting the menu/select key next to a folder would act as usual. But pressing and holding for 1.5 seconds would add a check without removing the check(s) already in place. Users wouldn't have to change their current workflow or really notice a difference unless they needed it. As a safety a warning pop up window could show when leaving the mirror folder page stating "multiple mirror folders selected, continue?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 I don't see the danger in having a mirror all function. I think it would be nice to have the unit set to auto mirror whatever I record. It's not currently how i work, but there are jobs where it'd be nice. I also think it would be great to have a file automatically re mirror if i change meta data. Currently when doing feature work, i enter a lot of the meta data after the take, so i end up mirroring whole scenes after the scene is done, but would love to not have to think about whether or not a file was updated, and spend more time thinking about my mics and listening to the planes that never leave us alone in seattle. Wandering Ear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendybones Posted July 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 Maybe just having a way to check next to multiple folders would be an easy addition? Hitting the menu/select key next to a folder would act as usual. But pressing and holding for 1.5 seconds would add a check without removing the check(s) already in place. Users wouldn't have to change their current workflow or really notice a difference unless they needed it. Wonderful idea for implementation. I don't see the danger in having a mirror all function. +1 I also think it would be great to have a file automatically re mirror if i change meta data. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjohns37 Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 I don't see the danger in having a mirror all function. I think it would be nice to have the unit set to auto mirror whatever I record. It's not currently how i work, but there are jobs where it'd be nice. I also think it would be great to have a file automatically re mirror if i change meta data. Currently when doing feature work, i enter a lot of the meta data after the take, so i end up mirroring whole scenes after the scene is done, but would love to not have to think about whether or not a file was updated, and spend more time thinking about my mics and listening to the planes that never leave us alone in seattle. Wandering Ear +1 I want to set the mirroring at the beginning of a project and forget it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason A Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 Does anyone else find it cumbersome to turn off mirroring in order to change the folder being mirrored to? Couldn't the turning off and back on of the mirroring function happen automatically in Nomad behind the scenes? In fact I find it cumbersome to need to change the "Folder To Mirror". In the "Folder To Mirror" menu, I would like the first entry to be "All". Selecting this would have Nomad mirror any folder where a file is recorded or changed (much like many PC/Mac backup utilities). That way I could have several folders on Primary (ep1day1, ep1day2, ep1wild, etc) and change my current folder as appropriate without having the additional 3 steps of turning off mirroring, choosing new folder to mirror, and turning mirroring back on. Does anyone else want this? Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howy Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 The Mirror ALL idea might not be that hard to do. It was not considered in Deva since typically you were mirroring to a small disk that could barely fit 1 days worth of audio. I have also considered allowing mirror folder changes as long as the system is not actively mirroring a file. I have just been worried that if the system does not notice that some mirroring operation in taking place, and you change/rename folders, a file could get corrupted without any warning. -howy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendybones Posted July 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 The Mirror ALL idea might not be that hard to do. It was not considered in Deva since typically you were mirroring to a small disk that could barely fit 1 days worth of audio. I have also considered allowing mirror folder changes as long as the system is not actively mirroring a file. I have just been worried that if the system does not notice that some mirroring operation in taking place, and you change/rename folders, a file could get corrupted without any warning. -howy That's great news. Sounds like it is possible then. And as it would be an addition/option, everyone is happy no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinetj Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 I agree with John here, every day is a new folder and however many discs or cards that are delivered live inside that folder. It makes it easy to go and dig something up for post when all they tell you is the line they want is from day 11. IF Zaxcom could also implement something similar to the three level folders at the Soundevices recorders, with a new daily folder cretaed each day, life would be a little bit easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 How many days do you guys put on a card? I'm just breaking in my Nomad, but with my Fusion I was doing enough audio that I *maybe* could get 2 days on a 32GB card. I've done too many jobs that end up being 20GB+ per day that I don't feel comfortable doing real reality/doc with a card that has anything on it. If I know I am doing sit down interviews (2 tracks) or reality with boom and 1 lav, then ok, but 6+ tracks of audio is unpredictable on a lot of the stuff I have been doing in the last year or so. I probably came within 15 minutes of running out of space on a 32GB card recently. That was just one crazy day. Good thing the last scene went from 3 wires and a boom to just booming, or I would have had to switch cards. I also keep a few sets of cards and rotate them every day. Say I have 2 sets of cards, I use set 1, the next day I use set 2. That gives me a little buffer if something went wrong in transfer of audio files. I can also prep the card for the next day while backing up the day's audio to my own drive (on set, or at home). I wish we had some big internal drive like the Devas where we could put a week/month of audio on there, but that's not the case. I also wouldn't want to be there to let that kind of transfer happen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Martin Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 I tend to keep three or so days on my card at a time before before I do a format. But most of my jobs tend to be 4 card tracks or less, so my cards don't fill up too quick. Eventually once the feature is delivered, Nomad 8 & 12's will be able to mirror directly to USB sticks/drives. So throw a 1TB Lacie Rugged drive in your bag and throw your whole year on there without having to format. (assuming the USB port will pass enough power to spin the drive). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 I tend to keep three or so days on my card at a time before before I do a format. But most of my jobs tend to be 4 card tracks or less, so my cards don't fill up too quick. Eventually once the feature is delivered, Nomad 8 & 12's will be able to mirror directly to USB sticks/drives. So throw a 1TB Lacie Rugged drive in your bag and throw your whole year on there without having to format. (assuming the USB port will pass enough power to spin the drive). Just to catch me speaking too soon, I only used 2GB of data yesterday. That's a jinxing I can live with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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