AustinHunter Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 I am a fairly green soundie, who usually works as boom or utility. Tomorrow I will be mixing some second unit coverage on the show I am currently on. I will be using a SD 302 and 2 lectros, and a boom. I'm going directly to camera via beta snake and I have never recorded straight to camera like this before. I guess I'm just looking for any advice in general and potential problems this setup could present. Thankyou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhobbit Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 The batteries die, the snake, boom and your arms are too short, your outside without a blimp and they want to roll before you have a chance to wire the actors. No cables to go to the Red whatever. Other than that, you're good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Levine Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Biggest problems could be the Epic's fan and generally low quality audio inputs. If you have enough time, CYA and record a backup. DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinHunter Posted July 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Thanks for the replies, I was wondering more about attenuation/ level problems going from the 302 to the camera. I am not very experienced in device comparability and attenuation etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Recording sound to epic! Red light flashing!! Please make them consider getting you an h4n or something like it. The inputs and sound engine on the epic are Epic fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 " I guess I'm just looking for any advice in general and potential problems this setup could present. Thankyou " there is already tons of stuff to read here on jwsoundgroup.net. an advanced test session would be a good idea to figure out things prior to the actual shoot... remember, it takes years of experience to get years of experience... break a leg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feeley Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Record backup/primary audio to an external recorder...even a cheap Zoom or something... Download and read the RED Epic Operation Manual: https://www.red.com/downloads Read these two (and some other recent) discussion threads here on JWS: Find out which version of the firmware the camera is running and what your camera can and can't do. Make sure you/they have the cables you need. Record backup/primary audio to an external recorder...even a cheap Zoom or something... Arrive early and ensure you'll have enough time with the camera to get things settled. Turn off the RED's limiter. Record backup/primary audio to an external recorder...even a cheap Zoom or something... Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 and I would even add: Record backup/primary audio to an external recorder...even a cheap Zoom or something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHall Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 and I would even add: Record backup/primary audio to an external recorder...even a cheap Zoom or something... Even a Zoom sounds better than on-camera RED audio... And your earlier comment about it taking years of experience in order to get years of experience is all too true. --R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek H Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Read the 302 user manual while you're at it too! It is possible to attenuate the 302 main outputs down to mic level which is what the red epic will require. Also, some sort of xlr to 3.5mm trs adapter will be needed to interface with the epic. They will probably provide that... Probably! Have fun, I'm sure something will go wrong and you'll find yourself under the bus. Just try to push for having a back up recorder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Nic Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 I have done corporate videos going into the camera of a Scarlett, which is very similar to the Epic. The output of the device is heavily delayed, which is extremely distracting to listen to when monitoring from the device , As you SHOULD be doing when going into camera, however: The camera does not play back audio upon video playback (That one didn't anyway) so I ended up only monitoring from my H1 backup [usually my primary in my small it] (I was feeding the Scarlet with XLRs which were attenuated and the H1 with the tape out which was not) and told them that I would give the camera proper audio, but because I could not verify that it was there on playback ( so I didn't REALLY know if it was getting onto the camera at all even though the meters were going), that I would monitor my H1 and give them those files in case the camera's audio was in fact not recording. It was recording and the audio they used was from it (which they were happy with), but if it wasn't on there they had the backup which I KNEW was clean. My advice, use an H1 out of the tape out for a simultaneous back up. For your direct question: attenuate the 302 and the Epic levels to get your tone where it needs to be, read the manuals to be able to do this, and monitor from the camera always (even if it is delayed). Let us know how it goes. Good Luck. Also: Is that how the show usually works? Why don't you ask the Main Sound Mixer how he does it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Reineke Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Yeah, the stock Epic has two balanced or unbalanced 3.5mm TRS jacks on the front of the 'brain' under the lens. Read the manual for the specific set-up procedure and don't expect the cam ops to know anything about it. Beware, the 'audio present' light only means something is 'plugged in', you must acually see the tiny meters registering and hear the auido. That said, I only send audio to the any RED for reference purposes only. The RED is totally unpredictable and setting's can change each time the camera re-booted. (which is usually quite often). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 " and don't expect the cam ops to know anything about it. " That would be my clue to also not know anything about it --after all it is their toy, and not my toy-- so 'here is the audio line' if camera wants to do anything with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Reineke Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 On secomd thought, that's a better way of dealing with it. I think you have something there Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 " and don't expect the cam ops to know anything about it. " That would be my clue to also not know anything about it --after all it is their toy, and not my toy-- so 'here is the audio line' if camera wants to do anything with it. Honestly I disagree with this attitude. It's similar in my mind to camera refusing to deal with tinecode cause they see it as a sound problem. Camera and sound are interfacing with each other for the benefit of production (or post in this case) and need to work together to achieve sync and help each other when they can. Refusing to learn anything about the sound section of a camera makes you look worse, not camera, and it's irrelevant if camera knows anything about it. They can make themselves look unknowledgable all they want, but that's not how I want to be seen on set. Just my $.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 I think mike was being sarcastic and might even share your take on it. I could be wrong... It depends Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feeley Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 I am a fairly green soundie, who usually works as boom or utility. Tomorrow I will be mixing some second unit coverage on the show I am currently on. I will be using a SD 302 and... Trap (or should I call your Mr. Aholic?], How did the job go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Reineke Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 I think mike was being sarcastic and might even share your take on it. I could be wrong... It depends I assume so too, so was I. Some cam ops still don't know the cam menus and/or audio controls though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 I assume so too, so was I. Some cam ops still don't know the cam menus and/or audio controls though. I guess I didn't read the sarcasm. The good professional camera people I've worked with know all areas of their cameras. I wish all jobs were with such professionals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinHunter Posted July 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 Hey guys, thanks for all of the posts and sorry about the late reply. I was unable to hear the audio playback from the red epic, as stated above, i think because of a firmware update or lack there of. I could see the meters on the camera and had attenuated down to mic level on my 302 but was still worried about the actual sound the camera was getting. I ended up just using splitters to run it to camera as well as my Tascam DR-100 just to be safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 " The good professional camera people I've worked with know all areas of their cameras. " The good professional camera people know all areas of their cameras. " I was unable to hear the audio " now we are back to absolute basics: when recording audio, someone should be listening to the audio at the recording device we cannot be responsible for audio recording we do not make Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 Red is aware that the Epic cannot play back audio from the camera (but it's promised in a future upgrade). You can monitor through the camera's headphone output while shooting. There's lots of complaining from users at the moment that Red's RedcineX Pro debayering program -- used to convert R3D files to DPX, Quicktime, or Avid files -- does not play audio at the moment. The sound will play back in most editing programs. But I still caution my clients to only use the camera sound as a scratch track. Not sure how many of them listen to me, but that's what I tell them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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