Jump to content

The changing face of timecode - your opinions


Twade

Recommended Posts

So far, what I see (and interests me somehow) is the ability to lock TC wirelessly on a certain array of boxes (2-3-4, up to your needs).
Not working on sets that need so much boxes so I'm not in already with this wireless yaddiyadda. It takes me 5 minutes to change batteries, lock TC on boxes and put'em back on my old slate (a TC-1) and 2 cams (that can go shoot 8 kms from me without issue), and I'm done so these devices are not that much a big time saver or that wonder thing it might seem to be for others. ''Standard'' boxes work A1 for me so far.
As for the production side of things, are they gonna pay for it ? I start with this question. The comfort of having time code on every iDevice on set (ie: script) has it's price and will probably affect my work, to top it off, in some way (one more thing apart from *audio* I'll take responsibility to manage).
But I'm regularly looking at these topics, still. The one I'm looking at the most is the Ambient ACN; lots of nice possibilities on paper and the sound reports I could produce are interesting.
The iPad as a slate is totally out of question for me. I want a ''real'' bulletproof slate. In fact, the more gear I get, the more people are manipulating it (apart from me) so the more bulletproof I want it to be. I may change my mind if ever tablets go down in price and the TC makers go with different brands though... but still, it'd have to be reaaaal solid. Buying 3 of them ''because they're cheap'' every year is not an option or an excuse either.
So back to original question: yep... communication with post, then a good ol' slate, a bunch of SB-3s (for even SB-2s) and I'm done. K-i-s-s principle application here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 57
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

John I appreciate your point. I would like to point out as a Timecode Buddy owner that while it can be useful to feed iDevices... (loggers, directors, recordists - for making notes etc) the really clever feature is linking multiple units together (one master and unlimited slaves that sync when they are within range).

There is nothing stopping you using something like a Betso TCD1 slate (http://www.betso.eu/...nced-functions/) fed from a Timecode Buddy which would allow you that professional look.

The TCD1 is a nifty reader but it's not a slate.

I don't doubt the utility of the Timecode Buddy system for some applications but it would cost about $2050. to duplicate the functions of a Denecke TS-3 or TS-C at about $1350. While I understand the flexibility of the wireless system, if you're looking to build a timecode slate, it appears the future of timecode is a little less than half again more expensive.

Best regards,

Jim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The TCD1 is a nifty reader but it's not a slate.

I don't doubt the utility of the Timecode Buddy system for some applications but it would cost about $2050. to duplicate the functions of a Denecke TS-3 or TS-C at about $1350. While I understand the flexibility of the wireless system, if you're looking to build a timecode slate, it appears the future of timecode is a little less than half again more expensive.

Best regards,

Jim

Jim, sorry I didn't have time to locate the slate surround that the tcd-1 slots into to make it a proper digi slate but it is available :)

On the subject of cost... I agree if you already own Timecode gear and are simply replacing this for new gear that does the same thing plus one or two new features it is a harder decision than buying for the first time. For example the Ambient ACL-204 is only a fraction cheaper than a Timecode Buddy Wifi unit (which does everything the Ambient does and more!)

At the end of the day, you pays your money and you takes your choice...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another +1 on the no to iThings on set. They never work right and there is properly built equipment for all those applications.

On the original subject, will we see soon the time when we don't need a timecode slate anymore? I have done shoots recently where I wasn't informed of a multicamera setup (yes, it happens) and only had my 788t as timecode master. Luckily they were Alexas and the internal Ambient generator is very reliable. So i jam synched each camera and every now and then they did plain boards mostly for IDs. Of course every 2-3 hours I got close to camera and in 5 seconds I was rejammed, but i'm sure i could have gone longer without.

There is already timecode stamping on film cameras and more and more all shoots are shifting to digital, so hopefully they will get better and follow suit on the Alexa (Red, pay attention) and built in the generator, saving us from having to buy new boxes, changing batteries and wasting time on each take to focus on numbers. I'm sure camera department will love that too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"On the original subject, will we see soon the time when we don't need a timecode slate anymore?"

No doubt that will happen one day, with the advances in digital workflow it is certainly more possible than it ever has been.

Some of the latest systems, for example Zaxcom's 'ZaxNet' attempt to bridge the gap by distributing Timecode, IFB Audio, Remote Control Signals and Metadata wirelessly around set, but interestingly they still include a Timecode Slate as part of the system.

I tend to think that this is because the Timecode Slate acts as a 'Backup' if all else fails much in the same way as the Timecode Slate is still 'Clapped' even though that would seem unnecessary with an accurate display of Timecode.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Zaxnet system has many advantages. Since the time code is part of the Zaxnet signal the sound mixer only needs 1 transmitter for time code, IFB and remote control of wireless. With the intergration into Nomad the is no external cableing and a single time code generator inside nomad is the master so no drift is possible and jamming is eliminated. With the ERX1TCD the system works great with conventional Deneke slates or can be easily connected to a TCB transmitter for use with Ipads and alike.

We hope to make the use of Zaxnet a common thread on every production. We work with all of the other time code product manufactures to make sure that the Zaxnet is compatable with their systems.

Glenn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While I admire the implementation of Zaxnet, I still dream of the day when the camera(s), the slate, the script supervisor, the sound department, and the video assist department can all access a wireless timecode feed that also carries all metadata, with everything instantly updating from a single source.

I have a dream! I've been to the mountain-top!

But it ain't gonna happen unless SMPTE or the EBU or some other industry organization comes up with a standard that Arri, Sony, Zaxcom, Sound Devices, Nagra, Red, Denecke, Aaton, Ambient, and all the other players can participate in. I really believe it has to be an open-source system that will work across multiple brands and models. I'm convinced it can be done, but getting all these companies to agree on a single standard would not be easy.

Maybe it's more like "I had too much to dream last night... too much to dream..."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I personally love the zaxnet system. The central integration is the primary reason I'm making the switch to zaxcom gear, and I love the sound quality.

For the feature I'm on right now, I gave camera 2 erx1tcd, one for each camera body. They love them. I can feed tc and scratch track from one unit instead of two, and that unit is smaller than a lockit box. I don't have to run the boxes from the camera to my cart to jam and back twice a day. The same units are used for video village, director, scripty etc. The only transmitter in my bag is built into my nomad.

Being able to control the transmitter gains during a take is incredible, especially for scenes where the talent goes from a whisper to a full on scream.

Do I mind using lockit boxes? No, they're great. But I still think zaxnet is an improvement.

As per ipads etc, I think they are great tools, but should be used only when they are the appropriate tool. I use my android tablet for sound reports, and it's perfect. Better than a paper report for me, I end up recording more detailed info. I have no interest in using tablets as slates etc, it just doesn't seem like the right tool.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I personally love the zaxnet system. The central integration is the primary reason I'm making the switch to zaxcom gear, and I love the sound quality.

For the feature I'm on right now, I gave camera 2 erx1tcd, one for each camera body. They love them. I can feed tc and scratch track from one unit instead of two, and that unit is smaller than a lockit box. I don't have to run the boxes from the camera to my cart to jam and back twice a day. The same units are used for video village, director, scripty etc. The only transmitter in my bag is built into my nomad.

Not trying to make this a zaxcom thread, but since your mentioning it here: if I read the reports here on board, how do you deal with the short range of zaxnet? Especially for the directors IFB.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Zaxnet range is fine as long as you are using a good antenna and if you use an amp as well the range will be outstanding. Regarding Timecode distribution using Zaxcom IFB and ERX receivers, the receivers have their own timecode generator (just like all the other sync boxes) and if they go out of range they continue outputting timecode. Once back in range they re-jam just as if you had brought it back to the cart to jam. For audio monitoring, the Zaxcom IFB transmitter and the ERX receivers being on the 2.4 Ghz band, are not the best choice for the Utility person who may be way off the set, back to the trailer to pick something up, etc. In these situations, a Comtek on low band UHF will have much greater range and flexibility (but with vastly reduced audio quality, of course, over the Zaxcom ERX receiver).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I m a nomad/erx user as well and very impressed with the features/simplicity and useabiity of the system. The only downside as other mentionned is the fragility of the erx casing. Nothing broken so far but it doesnt feel solid at all. I wish they could have had aluminum casing like regular syncboxes.

I bought an extra one just a month ago and then yday i get a email from my store offering me a 125$ (plus shipping) to upgrade on the casing on the erx... I mean each unit is already 599$ and then when buyers point out the obvious fragility of the unit you just charge them more $$ and more trips to the mothership.. Anyway for now i bought a 4$ iphone cover thing with a clip that protects the unit, made also a little window for tc display. I still always get a little nervous when i handout the unit to be used as ifb.

Anyway that s enough ranting for now but like i said the features of this system is pretty amazing,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not trying to make this a zaxcom thread, but since your mentioning it here: if I read the reports here on board, how do you deal with the short range of zaxnet? Especially for the directors IFB.

What Jeff said. The only time I have IFB range issues is when I am in the bag and there are several walls between me and the listener. When I'm on the cart I have a 1 watt amp and omni antenna, and the range is superb. I love knowing that as soon as the camera is withing range of me, it automatically is jammed, and if the signal drops out, it continues to stay in sync. Having a wireless TC/Generator system (any one of them would do this) has noticeably reduced the amount of energy I spend screwing around with timecode and sync. I boot up my Nomad in the morning, jam the UBITS and a start TC, and I know it gets everywhere it needs to go.

I wasn't meaning to make it a Zaxcom thread either, just stating my experience with one of the three systems being discussed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I m a nomad/erx user as well and very impressed with the features/simplicity and useabiity of the system. The only downside as other mentionned is the fragility of the erx casing. Nothing broken so far but it doesnt feel solid at all. I wish they could have had aluminum casing like regular syncboxes.

Zaxcom has a new designed / more durable casing available for the ERX's. And I beleive for a small fee they can retrofit you old ERX to fit in the new casing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I agree with Phil P, professional TC gear holds excellent sync for 6 hours no problem. I have not much interest in any wireless timecode devices at this point as clever as the tech might be I dont see it making my life much easier at all and just looks like a good way to disappear a bunch of money that I will never reclaim on rentals.

What I do like is the Ambient "cutie" linked above... the size of my Denecke S-BT for example can sometimes be a downer when you are trying to find a place on the Epic to stick/hang it and the focus puller is looking at you funny.. off topic but Denecke PLEASE make a tiny TC generator with a backlit LCD! :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On their page: ''First of all, it has Clockit Time Code of course.''

Just to be sure I get everything right: it won't generate TC to jam other boxes on set but ''Clockit Time Code'' is a clock in itself ain't it? So it's like a usual TC box that can be jammed; a ''slave'' box if you wish..? PLUS all of the other wireless functions of the Clockit network of course (like jamming a float of boxes on a big set)...

It's a tiny line between TCBuddy and this system then so far... I say so far because the Ambient ambitions of practically locking everything on set (camera functions like zoom, focus, sound metadata, etc...all at the same place) will make the difference once the ACN is completed or at least more advanced.

Well, I guess it's back to square one with what TWade said in his OP...

I really like both systems ! :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...