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Dear Nomad Users,


DecentSound

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I just recently purchased a nomad and got it set up for the direct to camera 4 lav shoot I was on the other day and it worked fine. I was just looking to get some experienced tips or tricks or things you've found to save me some time and bring me up to speed with using the Nomad. Anything and everything helps and I thank you all in advance.

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Well it is a pretty easy interface, but if you switched from Sound Devices here will probably be some shockers:

1) You cannot name a file whatever you want, you can name the folder, the scene and take...but you cannot specifically name the file it will always be whatever segment is next unless you format the CF card then it just starts over. So make sure your shooter/editor knows that they must import the files into FCP or AVID etc to view the take numbers etc. (I have lost a job over this so far)

2) You cannot move a file once it has been recorded and you can only mirror 1 folder. So make sure you 1) have the largest CF you can buy as your primary, and for each day you shoot add those files to another folder. 2) What you can also do is go into the mirror menu and select to start mirroring at segment 5 instead of 1 in a specific folder and then hypothetically you can go and then mirror another folder on the same card. I would not suggest this as I have had errors with using this and continuous mirroring at the same time, and this has drastically slowed my day down and made it more nerve-racking .

IMO for ENG work the Nomad is woefully inadequate still for data/file management...and as it so far seems will make no progress towards addressing it. It is obvious they have a great history with feature work as this type of file management is definitely different. Wish they would make exceptions at least only with the Nomad. The device is of course a powerhouse for great sounding preamps and amazing I/O configuration...but hopefully things will change in that regard. What was also surprising to me is that they didn't provide a power cable when I bought the device....so to continually learn on your device you'll either have to buy a power adapter from them or keep charging batteries.

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Well it is a pretty easy interface, but if you switched from Sound Devices here will probably be some shockers:

1) You cannot name a file whatever you want, you can name the folder, the scene and take...but you cannot specifically name the file it will always be whatever segment is next unless you format the CF card then it just starts over. So make sure your shooter/editor knows that they must import the files into FCP or AVID etc to view the take numbers etc. (I have lost a job over this so far)

2) You cannot move a file once it has been recorded and you can only mirror 1 folder. So make sure you 1) have the largest CF you can buy as your primary, and for each day you shoot add those files to another folder. 2) What you can also do is go into the mirror menu and select to start mirroring at segment 5 instead of 1 in a specific folder and then hypothetically you can go and then mirror another folder on the same card. I would not suggest this as I have had errors with using this and continuous mirroring at the same time, and this has drastically slowed my day down and made it more nerve-racking .

IMO for ENG work the Nomad is woefully inadequate still for data/file management...and as it so far seems will make no progress towards addressing it. It is obvious they have a great history with feature work as this type of file management is definitely different. Wish they would make exceptions at least only with the Nomad. The device is of course a powerhouse for great sounding preamps and amazing I/O configuration...but hopefully things will change in that regard. What was also surprising to me is that they didn't provide a power cable when I bought the device....so to continually learn on your device you'll either have to buy a power adapter from them or keep charging batteries.

Maybe it's just me, but I find nothing that you mention here, differences between the way Sound Devices recorders handle files and the way Zaxcom handles files, as "shocking." Since I was involved with the first adoption of two significant production recording technologies, DAT and then later, file based recording, both of which impacted editorial "workflow" (with "workflow" itself not even yet being a term we had to understand), I have little sympathy for some of the people in post who are unwilling to learn something new. If you lost a job because you delivered excellent sound recordings that had a file-naming routine that they were unfamiliar with, this is a pathetic situation. Why was Editorial pissed at your sound files that did not have a file NAME that would match some scene and take that existed somewhere else (in script notes, camera reports, slate, etc.). How were they dealing with your sound, using iTunes?

Most of the things you outline above, far from shocking, should dissuade no one from using recorders from Zaxcom. If you have gotten used to Sound Devices recorders and want to use a recorder from Zaxcom, Aaton, Nagra, Tascam, etc., etc., you will havde to learn some new things... this is true.

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Well it is a pretty easy interface, but if you switched from Sound Devices here will probably be some shockers:

1) You cannot name a file whatever you want, you can name the folder, the scene and take...but you cannot specifically name the file it will always be whatever segment is next unless you format the CF card then it just starts over. So make sure your shooter/editor knows that they must import the files into FCP or AVID etc to view the take numbers etc. (I have lost a job over this so far)

2) You cannot move a file once it has been recorded and you can only mirror 1 folder. So make sure you 1) have the largest CF you can buy as your primary, and for each day you shoot add those files to another folder. 2) What you can also do is go into the mirror menu and select to start mirroring at segment 5 instead of 1 in a specific folder and then hypothetically you can go and then mirror another folder on the same card. I would not suggest this as I have had errors with using this and continuous mirroring at the same time, and this has drastically slowed my day down and made it more nerve-racking .

IMO for ENG work the Nomad is woefully inadequate still for data/file management...and as it so far seems will make no progress towards addressing it. It is obvious they have a great history with feature work as this type of file management is definitely different. Wish they would make exceptions at least only with the Nomad. The device is of course a powerhouse for great sounding preamps and amazing I/O configuration...but hopefully things will change in that regard. What was also surprising to me is that they didn't provide a power cable when I bought the device....so to continually learn on your device you'll either have to buy a power adapter from them or keep charging batteries.

#1 While it's true you cannot name the files after scene and take, it's really not a big deal. Also the Nomad can write a sound report for you that shows the segment number and associated metadata including the scene and take.

#2 You can only mirror one folder at a time, but there is nothing stopping you from mirroring multiple folders.

I find the Nomad to be excellent for ENG work, so much that I sold my 552 figuring I'd rather just do it on the Nomad.

DecentSound, make sure you know your signal routing well, and spend some good reading time with the unit in front of you and the manual. It's a very powerful machine, which means you need to know it inside and out in order to know why it's doing what it's doing at any given point in time.

Enjoy!

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I would start with the excellent video tutorials that Zaxcom has put up. If you watch all those videos with your Nomad in front of you, it will go a long way towards helping you understand how this amazing recorder/mixer works.

I agree the videos are really well done and have several excellent tips and shortcuts.
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Is there anything in specific you are looking for?

A really good learning tool is just playing with Nomad. Adjust the setting, play with routing, going thru the menus hit different keys / combinations or keys. And keep in mind you CAN'T screw anything up. If you find that you totally made a mess of all your menus and settings just restore factory defaults.

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Just to let you guys know, you can use Wave Agent to batch rename files from a Nomad according to their scene/take.

Good point. It just seems like there is way too much pressure put on the production sound mixer to do the work that was traditionally done by assistant editors and others in post. The expectations from the production that somehow they one person they (reluctantly) hire (and pay very little to) to record the sound, should be able to show up with a bag full of gear and deliver a finished soundtrack at the end of the 15 hour day.

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Again, I appreciate the replies. I have sat down and fiddled with it for hours and have been using a Fusion for a few months now on a show so I'm getting used to Zaxcoms way of thinking. I was just looking for shortcuts or user experience to save me some troubleshooting in the field. A lot of the replies are great and will be applied with future use.

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Just to let you guys know, you can use Wave Agent to batch rename files from a Nomad according to their scene/take.

When I have used non-Sound Devices recorders, I have told the post department, "hey, you can always have the assistant editor rename the files to the scene and take number. Remember that the camera does not name the files, either." And I also give them a sound report that does tell them the name of the file, the name of the scene & take, start timecode, notes, and so on.

That usually shuts them up (but not always).

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Maybe it's just me, but I find nothing that you mention here, differences between the way Sound Devices recorders handle files and the way Zaxcom handles files, as "shocking." Since I was involved with the first adoption of two significant production recording technologies, DAT and then later, file based recording, both of which impacted editorial "workflow" (with "workflow" itself not even yet being a term we had to understand), I have little sympathy for some of the people in post who are unwilling to learn something new. If you lost a job because you delivered excellent sound recordings that had a file-naming routine that they were unfamiliar with, this is a pathetic situation. Why was Editorial pissed at your sound files that did not have a file NAME that would match some scene and take that existed somewhere else (in script notes, camera reports, slate, etc.). How were they dealing with your sound, using iTunes?

Most of the things you outline above, far from shocking, should dissuade no one from using recorders from Zaxcom. If you have gotten used to Sound Devices recorders and want to use a recorder from Zaxcom, Aaton, Nagra, Tascam, etc., etc., you will havde to learn some new things... this is true.

HI Jeff your the man. Yes, that post you said about work leaving Hollywood is very real and they are taking low budget ways of doing it as well. With these Walmart shoots they hired shooters from all over the country flew them to LA and trained them how they wanted to shoot and then are having the shooter also edit the thing. Most of these shooters are not editors also, but they represent the city in which they live or whatever. This was the case with this editor...as he is used to using guys with all Sound Devices gear...he had less than 24 hours to then edit the work and it literally aired the next day.

I am still starting out grovelling on the outskirts of greatness I suppose, but most productions that aren't doc style into camera shoots demand IME highly suggest that the file name be the take and scene number. I get the feeling that if you can't name the file then most editors truly don't know the difference between the two Z's Zoom and Zaxcom. One they don't know (Zaxcom) and the other they don't want to know. Sound Devices has an extremely strong foothold among camera and sound guys in the lower budget or even ENG field. I just talked with one of the well known sound mixers in my area, when I mentioned Zaxcom they had no idea who or what I was talking about. I wanted to upgrade my Nomad to use on this upcoming production, but without the naming functionality I truly cannot use it because I know the post supervisor puts extreme stress in the fact that the 788 you can name the file. CRAZY?? YES!! ABSOLUTELY!! Worth losing work?? NOPE.

Wandering Ear, good choice the 552 has never been a competitor in my mind, the Zaxcom is obviously superior in well...everything. I knew a guy who couldn't understand the electronic voice and accidentally printed timecode to one of his tracks in the 552...what a mess.

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Crazy is the operative word here. The solution that Marc outlines:

"When I have used non-Sound Devices recorders, I have told the post department, "hey, you can always have the assistant editor rename the files to the scene and take number. Remember that the camera does not name the files, either." And I also give them a sound report that does tell them the name of the file, the name of the scene & take, start timecode, notes, and so on."

This only works if there IS a post department! I am curious about one thing since I have thankfully never had to do any of the sort of jobs you are describing. Where are these all important Scene and Take numbers coming from? Is there a script person running around with the rest of the "run and gun" crowd? Are "scenes" being made up by the Camera people on the fly? Do these scene and take numbers end up on a slate (physical slate) that the camera has shot? Just curious (because all this plays into understanding how the people in post are supposed to be dealing with all of this and why the sound file NAME is so important that you will lose your job over it).

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" experienced tips or tricks or things you've found to save me some time and "

" the 12 trillion Nomad threads here did nothing for you? "

" I have watched a number of video tutorials and have read some of the threads "

OK, take your foot out of your mouth, do the rest of your homework...

you set it up, and used it once...right??

there isn't really a way to save time learning this stuff (any piece of equipment!) you have to do it...just do it.

it takes years of experience to get years of experience,

" I was just looking for shortcuts or user experience to save me some troubleshooting in the field "

do your homework, then keep on using the units... that is how to learn what you need to know...

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" I was just looking for shortcuts or user experience to save me some troubleshooting in the field "

I have to say this (though it is a bit more harsh than most of the things I post here) that if you think you are going to have to "troubleshoot in the field" maybe you ought to hold off going out to work (in the field) with whatever piece of gear you want to use.

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Yea for the Walmart deal he made up scenes on the fly each product being a different scene number and takes therein. "thankfully never had to do any of the sort of jobs you are describing." I KNOW...you wanta get me on a shoot that switches to union in the middle (I know the union doesn't get me work lol) and then let me boom for you? I am 6'7 and ain't an A-hole lol. Oh wait there isn't anymore work in Hollywood...

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Scene and take numbers can come from the Scripty if there is one. If no scripty, Director, DP or AC, AD or producer have fed me this information in the past. Then, if no direction is coming from any of them, I will often employ my own, very obvious naming scheme. For instance: I did a series of interviews one day. Each was their name, "Betty," "Margret," Etc. If I am manning the slate, yes, I match the names up. If not, I make sure the AC is. I do the folder name thing on the Nomad to get somewhat there. But the character limit, and the silly Mirror mode switching makes it cumbersome to do on the fly, and could lead to mistakes of not having stuff mirror correctly. I always have to take extra time before handing things to DIT.

Sure, camera doesn't do this, but just because they don't, doesn't mean we shouldn't. Its like the old, "If your friends jumped off of a cliff would you?" kinda logic.

Since poorly run sets are the new rule rather than the exception, I feel as though it is my opportunity to help the productions as much as possible. If they use plural eyes, it can merge the files, and then take on our file names. Now the editor has named files, merged inside their editing app. AWS_2-11.mov beats the crap out of 1AZZ67784.mov

Where are these all important Scene and Take numbers coming from? Is there a script person running around with the rest of the "run and gun" crowd? Are "scenes" being made up by the Camera people on the fly? Do these scene and take numbers end up on a slate (physical slate) that the camera has shot? Just curious (because all this plays into understanding how the people in post are supposed to be dealing with all of this and why the sound file NAME is so important that you will lose your job over it).

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  • 1 month later...

You cannot name a file whatever you want, you can name the folder, the scene and take...but you cannot specifically name the file it will always be whatever segment is next unless you format the CF card then it just starts over. So make sure your shooter/editor knows that they must import the files into FCP or AVID etc to view the take numbers etc. (I have lost a job over this so far)

FYI - I am currently beta testing new software that allows you to name files with scene and take numbers.

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Not sure why file name structure is such a big deal. As I have seen when editors sync, they can plainly see the metadata that contains the scene/take info, in the same row that the file name exists. Also, when sound mixers do their jobs properly, ie. make well written sound reports with ALL the pertinent information, ie. filenames(Seg#), all the info is there for the editors to use. The fact that they are complaining they have to move their eyes a foot over to get their info is ridiculous. This workflow has been in existance for over 13 years. Spoiled I tell ya, spoiled! Enjoy the AC while we are braving the trenches making your life easier! I for one, will continue using the Zaxcom original nomenclature, because I still feel it serves a good purpose! Rant over...

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Not sure why file name structure is such a big deal.

I for one, will continue using the Zaxcom original nomenclature, because I still feel it serves a good purpose!

I agree with you. I have no issues with the original file naming system - and will continue to use it. But Zaxcom was responding to users request to have another option of file naming. The good thing is there is a menu setting that allows you to choose the "classic" naming or choose the naming that includes scene and take numbers - so the choice is yours.

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Having the option to rename the file what you want is a good thing. I was at first a bit bummed by the fact that my Fusion can only name the files by folder name and segment number. I got used to it. For certain projects, having the ability to name it what you want can be very helpful. SD recorders can name files by folder/segment number as well if you set it up that way.In fact, Boom Recorder goes even further in naming schemes. It's all about having options. It seems Zax is going to incorporate the ability to name the file as scene/take name into the Nomad. I hope they make that feature available for the Fusion/Deva as well. Just because it's not a big deal to some of you doesn't mean it's not a helpful feature.

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