Zaxcom- MAXX

[Mark Orusa]

I need to check my card tracks back, but if it isn't them then the headphone amp is overloading.

Just FYI, here's a quote from from Glenn ,"The Nomad output structure is unique in that it is specifically designed so that the headphone monitor output will clip at exactly the same point as a Nomad output bus. This prevents output bus audio that may be distorted from going undetected because it sounded fine at the mixer headphone output as is common with other mixers."

Neverclip inputs can provide 20 db more level than the record and output buses can handle (+20dbFS). This means that even if you have the limiter threshold set to -2dbFS with a 4:1 ratio, +20dbFS will still clip (-2 + {20/4 = 5} = +3). You'll have to experiment with the limiters to see if you can prevent this distortion, which is presumably from an output bus.

With the aforementioned limiter settings, I think turning down the fader to around 9 or 10 o'clock would be enough to pull the level down so it wouldn't clip an output. The faders have no db indicators, so it's hard to say how much 3db is.

Mark O.

[glenn]

We will have a MAXX at IBC. It will not be powered up but it will be there so we can talk about it.

Glenn

[VASI]

Glenn the MAXX will have same spec's like a Nomad? I mean about THD + Noise, Frequency Responce, 32bit Float DSP, ADC Dynamic Range etc etc?

[James Arnold]

Just FYI, here's a quote from from Glenn ,"The Nomad output structure is unique in that it is specifically designed so that the headphone monitor output will clip at exactly the same point as a Nomad output bus. This prevents output bus audio that may be distorted from going undetected because it sounded fine at the mixer headphone output as is common with other mixers."

Neverclip inputs provide 20 db more level than the record and output buses can handle (+20dbFS). This means that even if you have the limiter threshold set to -2db with a 4:1 ratio, +20dbFS will still clip (-2 + {20/4 = 5} = +3). You'll have to experiment with the limiters to see if you can prevent this distortion, which is presumably from an output bus.

With the aforementioned limiter settings, I think turning down the fader to around 9 or 10 o'clock would be enough to pull the level down so it wouldn't clip an output. The faders have no db indicators, so it's hard to say how much 3db is.

Mark O.

Thanks Mark. Useful information.

I'm still a bit confused to exactly what Neverclip is doing though? Allowing more latitude on pulling down the faders to stop output distortion? I only ask, as for years I've worked with only a single set of output limiters on my mixer and only very rarely had anything like clipping occur. I seem to be running into that issue more on the Nomad so I'm a bit puzzled.

[Vincent R.]

We will have a MAXX at IBC. It will not be powered up but it will be there so we can talk about it.Glenn

Thanks. Looking forward to see it/him.

[rofin]

.... but never on my SQN.

Just tried one on the bench.

With the input gain set to '20', fader set mid way, and an input level such that the mixer output is at 0dBu (-20dBFS), you can increase the input level by 42dB (+22dBFS) whilst reducing the fader to 9 o'clock to prevent the mixer output exceeding +20dBu (0dBFS). The mixer's output won't actually clip until +26dBu.

So, with the SQN input handling capacity apparently similar (can't be sure until Glenn reveals all ), it possibly is the headphone feature or the limiter settings.

Rob

[RadoStefanov]

You are comparing apples and oranges. Digital vs analog.

[rofin]

You are comparing apples and oranges. Digital vs analog.

I'm not sure what you mean.

If you took the above setup and fed the 0dBu mixer out and calibrated it at -20dBFS in to a digital recorder, then you could increase the input to the mixer by 42dB i.e. +22dB above what would have equalled 0dBFS without clipping the front end of the mixer, and using the fader to prevent the input of the digital recorder clipping.

No fruit salad.

Anyway, I don't want to hijack this thread with comparisons, it was just an observation in response to J1mbo's observation.

Rob

[Bash]

Opens door to huge abuse, but I will try and answer J1mbo's question.

Neverclip works by having 2 x A to D's for each IP - each with a different gain structure. One is the regular gain structure, and the other does the same job, but with 20dB less analogue gain before the A to D, so the same amount of analogue IP will produce a digital level 20dB lower.The A to D with the lower gain structure has 20dB of digital gain, but after the A to D. This path will technically be 'noisier', but no one will ever hear it as it only applies when things get very loud anyway. The 'system' usually uses the regular gain structure A to D, but it is looking a few samples ahead, and when things get loud at the IP end it will switch to the A to D with the lesser gain structure. There is no jump or dip in overall gain as the end levels, from analogue in to digital level, are the same, but the gain structure by which you got there is different.

Glenn - help me here - I am struggling....... Did I get that right? I think that is how it works.....

Kindest,

Simon B

[Victor Rubilar]

so you lose signal to noise ratio, but it is not detectable since de audio signal is so loud that it mask de higer noise floor. Then de audio after the imput converters has real 32bit float levels I gess . De increased noise is a very acceptable compromise for this aplication.

[Glen Trew]

"Never clip" works very well on normal situations, but in reporter mode (Documentary), you easily go from the calm to the strongest sound ever. for example in a war situation, and in my experience the "never clip" can't management this. I prefer a gain control for anticipate this "high dinamic" changes.

Suso

With 20dB of additional headroom, the input threshold before clipping is about the same as the microphone. So, even in doco mode, the input is probably not going to distort before the mic does.

However, it isn't said enough that even though an input using Never Clip will not distort on the post-fader mix track, the prefader ISO track can still be easily driven into digital distortion. To prevent this disortion on the prefader tracks when taking full advantage of Never Clip, the "card" limiters must be used on the ISO tracks (sometimes resulting in severe compression on the ISO tracks), or the 0VU reference on the ISO tracks needs to be set at -40dBfs (resulting in excessive noise).

Glen Trew

[Glen Trew]

The Maxx may look like Nomads little brother but it is a unique design incorperating the best bits of all of our products and technologies. It will be available later this year if all goes smoothly or early 2013 if there are any bumps in the road to release.

Glenn

Just bought a Nomad.

Bugger.

Would have been nice to know this was round the corner. Built in camera hop would be great on Nomad...

If the Maxx has a similar impact on the industry as the other Zaxcom mixer/recorders -- and I expect that it will -- then it will be a very useful and advanced device that sets a new standard. I am a big fan of Zaxcom mixer/recorders. I use them and recommend them when I feel they are the best choice, which is often. The Nomad has turned out to be a great compact mixer/recorder that is changing the ENG sound scene.

I support Zaxcom and encourage their innovation. The Trew Audio locations will have our orders for the Maxx in place in plenty of time and as much stock as can be delivered, and are happy to take orders and secure your place in line. However, my first priority is as an advocate for the end-user deciding about how and when to invest in equipment. Therefore, I have to remind everyone that the delivery dates estimated by Zaxcom have always been much more optimistic than reality. Every single time. Usually by a year or more. And even after first delivery there can be an extended period of final development.

The answer: Stay informed -- not only on developing technology but existing technology -- and get the best equipment available for your needs when you need it. Don't get it sooner than you need, and don't delay for what's "around the corner". Customers I've seen follow that plan always have the overall best return on their investment.

I'm looking forward to the Zaxcom Maxx. I look forward to getting to know it, using it, being amazed by it, and recommending it --when it's time.

Glen Trew

[macrecorder]

So neverclip never clips the inputs, but has no bearing on the rest of the chain, which is the recording levels and output levels. Is that right? So users should engage the limiters on recording iso's and output busses, as never clip doesn't look after those. If so, that is fine, but perhaps the term neverclip gives a false sense of security?

[glenn]

Never clip eliminates the problem of input clipping and input limiter distortion. It also eliminates the need to actively adjust the input trim setting during the mix since the fader is all that is needed to put an input into the mix with no fear of input distortion.

The card track compressors are used as a saftey so that the 137dB dynamic range pre fader iso inputs can be recorded properly even if the input dynamic range exceeds 0 dBFS. The advantage to this is the Nomads soft knee compressers with look ahead. They provide a very transparent compression that is difficult to detect.

The net result is audio recording and mixing as transparent and natural as possible under all input typical conditions.

Glenn

[Toy Robot]

...

The answer: Stay informed -- not only on developing technology but existing technology -- and get the best equipment available for your needs when you need it. Don't get it sooner than you need, and don't delay for what's "around the corner". Customers I've seen follow that plan always have the overall best return on their investment.

I'm looking forward to the Zaxcom Maxx. I look forward to getting to know it, using it, being amazed by it, and recommending it --when it's time.

Glen Trew

Glen, I have to thank you personally for this portion of your post. I've been weighing the pros and cons of a timecode capable digital recorder for some time now but haven't pulled the trigger since there is so much new equipment about to hit the market (Maxx, and my hopeful response from SD). I have been holding off because I don't want to buy something that is currently on the market and then immediately wish I had the new release.

But since you mention it, that's like waiting for the next best Apple device. Unless you pull the trigger, you'll always be waiting for the next one and will never have any device at all.

I think your advice will help me move forward now, regardless of what is around the corner. After all, one can never have too much backup equipment or things to re-sell.

Thanks again.

[Jack Norflus]

I think your advice will help me move forward now, regardless of what is around the corner. After all, one can never have too much backup equipment or things to re-sell.

plus high quality well maintained gear will retain its value and you can resell for close to what you paid for it

[fieldmixer]

Let's not forget Maxx over here! Been a week. Cobwebs are forming.

[Eric Toline]

Let's not forget Maxx over here! Been a week. Cobwebs are forming.

That's it. You had your 15 minutes of fame, you're old news now. ;-))

Eric

[Rasmus Wedin]

Let's not forget Maxx over here! Been a week. Cobwebs are forming.

Haven't forgotten about it, but it's still quite a long time before it's released. Can't wait to see how it handles in the field, but we'll have to wait a bit for that....

[PTA]

I'm still very interested in Maxx. I have always been a fan of SD products and am

In line for a 664, but the Maxx has so many great features all in one tiny box. I'm most curious to how its built in Tx works and if it indeed doesn't have any effect on Rx's in the bag.

[Jack Norflus]

I'm still very interested in Maxx. I have always been a fan of SD products and am

In line for a 664, but the Maxx has so many great features all in one tiny box. I'm most curious to how its built in Tx works and if it indeed doesn't have any effect on Rx's in the bag.

First as far as power goes you are going to have variable power options so if you are close to the receiver you can dial down the power or if you are far you can bump it up. As far as spray - it is yet to be determined though I know Glenn paid a lot of attention to this in the design and there is a buit in filtered antenna to clean up the RF output.

[Jesse Flaitz]

I'm still very interested in Maxx.

Same here, the 664 is just more kit than I need. Hoping to grow into it maybe .

[PTA]

As far as spray - it is yet to be determined though I know Glenn paid a lot of attention to this in the design and there is a buit in filtered antenna to clean up the RF output.

This is what I'm curious about. I have been pretty unsucessfull with RF spray from the STA and the filter antenna I find awkward.

[Jack Norflus]

Same here, the 664 is just more kit than I need. Hoping to grow into it maybe .

Well even with a 664 adding a Maxx might be a good combination. The 664 for your bigger jobs with high track counts and multiple Mic's. And Maxx for those run and gun days you need just one or two wires and a boom. You save a lot of weight and space in your bag - and your back will thank you.

So basically for about the price of a Nomad 8 you can get a 664 and a Maxx. You have your bigger machine for the big jobs and a light weight option for the smaller jobs - plus you now have a full back up machine.

My plan is to get a Maxx and use it that way.

[Jack Norflus]

This is what I'm curious about. I have been pretty unsucessfull with RF spray from the STA and the filter antenna I find awkward.

Well the spray from the STA is basically from the multi-contact pad where it is attached to the TRX - with Maxx there is no pad so that would resolve that issue.