David Waelder Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 I opened a new topic on a related matter. Like this thread, it's in the General Discussion section. I've made a start at a list of audio resources, what Senator Mike calls "The Usual Suspects," as source of information that might assist the many people who post questions that might best be answered by a referral to a good sales professional. To Blue Malice (the OP), I don't mean to diminish your inquiry, just to provide an easily referenced resource that might help in the process. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Anderson Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Basics would be a little too basic for me but something that really ties all of this in with film specifically would be awesome. "Basics" are never too basic if you're going to study further with a teacher. Those are the foundations. Whatever gaps in your own education you fill or terminology that is your teacher's preference that you pick up will be valuable. Honestly, the best outlet to learn would be to assist another mixer on a set. Most cities have a film commission that keeps track of technicians and shoots in their jurisdiction. I would also imagine that the DP you're currently employing would know local sound mixers he's worked with in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Now I really have to see your first episode. The curiosity is killing me. I think Michael may have inadvertently stumbled across an explanation for this entire thread....VIRAL MARKETING!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atheisticmystic Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Using vocabulary to try and make yourself sound intelligent does not make what you have to say intelligent. Saying really dumb things makes you sound resoundingly dumb... well done Mr. Malice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Hmmm... Even my greatest adversaries here probably wouldn't define me as a troll or an asshole. I hope I'm considered one of the most helpful members when new people like yourself are seeking advice. I've given all kinds of tips, which you'd know if you looked around a bit. It's awesome that you have thousands of dollars at your disposal, but most people on this site have worked hard for many years to just about make a living in this crazy business. Many of our most knowledgeable experts are out of work because of the assumption of folks like you who think they can buy some gear, ask a question or two, and become sound mixers (which although you are a hobbyist, you still want to mix your friend's projects). People become satisfied with "good enough" and no longer look for quality. It threatens the livelihood of everyone here who happen to not be independently wealthy. You won't find many allies on any website where you come in the way you do, like you're so much smarter than us stupid movie people, and make out that we can't possibly understand your brilliance. Los Angeles is packed with folks just like you. Enjoy your hobby. And I mean that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemalice Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Hmmm... Even my greatest adversaries here probably wouldn't define me as a troll or an asshole. I hope I'm considered one of the most helpful members when new people like yourself are seeking advice. I've given all kinds of tips, which you'd know if you looked around a bit. It's awesome that you have thousands of dollars at your disposal, but most people on this site have worked hard for many years to just about make a living in this crazy business. Many of our most knowledgeable experts are out of work because of the assumption of folks like you who think they can buy some gear, ask a question or two, and become sound mixers (which although you are a hobbyist, you still want to mix your friend's projects). People become satisfied with "good enough" and no longer look for quality. It threatens the livelihood of everyone here who happen to not be independently wealthy. You won't find many allies on any website where you come in the way you do, like you're so much smarter than us stupid movie people, and make out that we can't possibly understand your brilliance. Los Angeles is packed with folks just like you. Enjoy your hobby. And I mean that. If you will re-read the stuff you said to me and the way it was worded, it sounds pretty bad. Maybe that wasn't your intention but my idea of this forum was soured after the first couple of responses I received. It makes sense that everything else after that is tainted to my perception somewhat. I respect the fact that a lot of you guys had to claw your way up in the sound business and work is hard to find for MANY people in MANY industries right now. I tried to say early on that I'm not here to threaten that in any way. This will probably NEVER be a paying thing for me and my cousin who is running the show may NEVER pay for audio in his whole lifetime. It's already an understood thing between me and him that if he hits it big with anything he does, I would step aside (or down to a helping hand type role) for a pro audio guy. Possibly at that point I really could learn some stuff from a pro. I don't know where you get the idea that I think I'm so much smarter than anyone here. I came in simply asking questions and found hostility and assumptions abounding on this forum. I kept responding because I know how forums work and someone DID come along with something I hadn't thought of (calling a real, competent audio sales person for my order) and saved the day for me. It did cross my mind to do that early on in the process but not being up on anything in the industry, I didn't even know what a competent audio place would be. I then forgot about doing that during all my research and learning about techniques, equipment, lingo, etc... Atheisticmystic has been a detriment to the forum from the beginning of this thread. I really hope the rest of you don't support that kind of abusive attitude toward new members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 I'm coming to this topic a little late, it seems, how did I miss all the fireworks? BM says: "There is NO money involved in shooting this t.v. show. Everyone is volunteer including myself. There is no "budget"." But there IS money being spent (a "budget") is you are serious about purchasing all that equipment. The thing you can't buy is the experience to know what to do with it once you buy it. Others have mentioned this whole experience thing and I know you have posed the question "how do I get that experience" but I think it's missing the point. Do you want a second career as a TV producer or a Sound Mixer? I bet if you added up all the money you are going to spend on equipment and proper training, you could just hire someone to do your sound and at almost assuredly a higher level than you will be able to do yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atheisticmystic Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 I'll be honest BM, I have NEVER flamed with anyone like I have with you...I even called you a name. But here is why... It did cross my mind to do that early on in the process but not being up on anything in the industry, I didn't even know what a competent audio place would be. I then forgot about doing that during all my research and learning about techniques, equipment, lingo, etc... This is your version of humility; telling Robert that you already knew what you came here asking. Atheisticmystic has been a detriment to the forum from the beginning of this thread. I really hope the rest of you don't support that kind of abusive attitude toward new members. Like I said, you are the only "new member" that I have ever laid into; you're a know it all without an ounce of humility, and you have absolutely no idea how ignorant you come across to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemalice Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 I'm coming to this topic a little late, it seems, how did I miss all the fireworks? BM says: "There is NO money involved in shooting this t.v. show. Everyone is volunteer including myself. There is no "budget"." But there IS money being spent (a "budget") is you are serious about purchasing all that equipment. The thing you can't buy is the experience to know what to do with it once you buy it. Others have mentioned this whole experience thing and I know you have posed the question "how do I get that experience" but I think it's missing the point. Do you want a second career as a TV producer or a Sound Mixer? I bet if you added up all the money you are going to spend on equipment and proper training, you could just hire someone to do your sound and at almost assuredly a higher level than you will be able to do yourself. Again, not the point. I want to do it for the experience. The director wants to do it for the experience. The camera guy wants to do it for the experience. We are all learning tons as we go and that's my favorite part about it. Learning stuff. If I just donated 5k or 10k or 20k or whatever, it was cease to be a small time project where people completely new to this created something they are personally proud of. I don't understand why no one gets that? Money is IRRELEVENT TO ME. I could spend 1 dollar or 1million dollars on sound equipment and it would change nothing about the reasons I'm doing it or what our goal is. I simply want to have a sound kit that I can START learning how to use on this first project while simultaneously having fun and creating something. I'm a bit of a technophile and owning a lot of this kit is part of the fun for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henchman Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 On this side note, my cousin and I both play and use Automags as well We've been playing for oh, ever since the first automag came out. Automags absolutely rock!!! We just did a special game day. Automags vs cockers. No need to ask who won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atheisticmystic Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 I'm a bit of a technophile.... But I can't plug in a Hirose connector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Anderson Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 If the eventual plan is to step aside when your cousin hits it big and can hire a regularly working sound mixer, then buying all of that gear sounds like a bad investment to me. On shoots, the Production Manager is higher up in the pecking order and makes more more money than the sound mixer. You have (or someone has) already assumed that role when you hired your cinematographer. Seems like you could take the money, hire a local sound mixer and manage the production side of the show. It's a very important position and should be handled by someone no matter what your role is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemalice Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 I'll be honest BM, I have NEVER flamed with anyone like I have with you...I even called you a name. But here is why... This is your version of humility; telling Robert that you already knew what you came here asking. Like I said, you are the only "new member" that I have ever laid into; you're a know it all without an ounce of humility, and you have absolutely no idea how ignorant you come across to me. That's funny coming from a "know it all" like yourself. You assumed so many things right from the beginning. I know your type to the letter man. I've spent most of my adult life profiling in the CJ field. You're an easy one to read. I also don't really see how my response to someone else, not Rob, had anything to do with a lack of humility. I already thanked him for that in a previous post with NO mention that I had thought of that before and completely forgot. Also, I DID completely forget and probably would not have remembered that if he hadn't mentioned that. He saved the day in my book and I said as much in a previous post. If you paid attention, you would have seen that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemalice Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Automags absolutely rock!!! We just did a special game day. Automags vs cockers. No need to ask who won. :$ I did Autocockers for a while. They are super cool in concept but man, nothing has ever been as accurate as my Automag. But I can't plug in a Hirose connector. I've never encountered equipment that used one before. I mostly deal with computers etc... You do realize that a technophile could be a technophile about other fields of technology right? This post you just made is the epitome of trolling. You just scan through what I've said looking for something to refute. It must be a sad life to do that purposefully on a forum to someone you don't even know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemalice Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 If the eventual plan is to step aside when your cousin hits it big and can hire a regularly working sound mixer, then buying all of that gear sounds like a bad investment to me. On shoots, the Production Manager is higher up in the pecking order and makes more more money than the sound mixer. You have (or someone has) already assumed that role when you hired your cinematographer. Seems like you could take the money, hire a local sound mixer and manage the production side of the show. It's a very important position and should be handled by someone no matter what your role is. No money was spent to hire anyone. The director/writer is my cousin and best friend. The camera guy is a friend of my cousin's from back in high school. We lucked out cause he is having a blast doing this and the stuff he's shot so far is excellent. The actors are all Craigslist volunteers or friends of friends of friends we know that are into acting. Again... I bought the equipment because I wanted to and I want to learn how to use it. I promise everyone that's an OK thing to do. Really... I love doing that and learning new things in the process. I bought a boat like 4 months ago for 10k dollars just to see if I like boating. I didn't. I sold it yesterday and actually made 1k on it. No big deal. If I drop the cash and find out I can't learn it or I don't like it, I will sell it and move on. Once more, I didn't realize that this forum was all about judging a persons ability to do anything or their reasoning for doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Again, not the point. I want to do it for the experience. The director wants to do it for the experience. The camera guy wants to do it for the experience. Then just DO IT! My conclusion at this point really boils down to the fact that you showed up at the wrong place to obtain help with this adventure of yours. This forum is NOT a school and although we have a large number of very knowledgeable people who are very generous with their time and their help, we're not teaching class here. You really need to pursue your hobby, this learning experience, somewhere else. As for the purchasing of equipment, that's your decision where to spend your money (I know it's "not about the money"). Also, we are not a Sales organization here or even Purchasing Consultants, so it is unlikely there will be anyone who can help you out making those decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henchman Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 At this point, given the fact that you have some audio experience, instead of a class, I would suggest actually hiring a good location guy, to use your gear, for your next short, or episode. Whatever it is. Watch and observe. I guarantee it will be worth every penny. Even the SFX mixer that mixes with me told me how much he learned last season, about. Mixing dialog sitting next to me. Am I worried? No. I want him to succeed in his goals, as I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atheisticmystic Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Whew...what a day...I think I'll call it a night... The actors are all Craigslist volunteers or friends of friends of friends we know that are into acting. Oh shit, now the fun is really gonna start; Mr. Malice, with years of CJ experience is going to have to deal with "He that shall not be named"... (it's gonna be great) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 I never plugged in a 4 pin Hirose either, until I bought a battery system that used those. Then I plugged one in. Now, I am an experienced Hirose plugger. It takes experience to get experience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 No money was spent to hire anyone. The director/writer is my cousin and best friend. The camera guy is a friend of my cousin's from back in high school. We lucked out cause he is having a blast doing this and the stuff he's shot so far is excellent. The actors are all Craigslist volunteers or friends of friends of friends we know that are into acting. So, everything's working out just fine except for the sound? What does that tell you about your collective knowledge to produce a TV episode? Maybe production sound recording isn't in the cards for any of the three of you and you will have to reach out to someone else (another cousin or another best friend) to help you out with the sound. Again, that's not going to happen here (painfully obvious). Lastly, the FLAME WARS must stop! You all know who you are. Please bring this back to civility without any name calling or abandon this thread all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McL Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 [snip] It's awesome that you have thousands of dollars at your disposal, but most people on this site have worked hard for many years to just about make a living in this crazy business. Many of our most knowledgeable experts are out of work because of the assumption of folks like you who think they can buy some gear, ask a question or two, and become sound mixers (which although you are a hobbyist, you still want to mix your friend's projects). People become satisfied with "good enough" and no longer look for quality. It threatens the livelihood of everyone here who happen to not be independently wealthy. [snip] Oh-for-goodness-sakes, you certainly have stepped on a hornets' nest, Blue, and Mr. Sharman has outlined its shape and in part why you and your questions have been greeted less than amicably. We really are an awesome group of very knowledgeable and helpful individuals, though you might not guess it from this thread. It's just this hornets' nest thing and a bit of bad timing relative to the general attitude of a lot of pro mixers in the U.S. (world?) today. Our nest's being repeatedly stepped upon by a bunch of people who sound very much like you. They've read some books, asked some questions here, "mixed" a few student/low-budget films, land on the scene with some gear, undercut rates, devalue and get the jobs, and put a lof of people who've got tens of thousands worth of gear and decades doing the job out of work. There's an equally fresh and inexperienced crop of wannabe producers and directors out there really screwing up the process (and the quality of our work product and environment) for every crew everywhere. They find nothing wrong with the sound these people get 'em 'cause they don't know any better either. And on...and on... You stepped in that. Sorry. There's no way what you do for your cousin (?) will take work away from any of us, but...lots of us are pretty worked up at they way our business is going, and you and the project you outline are part of that slippery slope to crap. A few people on your project will go on to do other jobs, thinking they have LEARNED how things are supposed to be done. These will be dangerous people. Yes. They will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemalice Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Then just DO IT! My conclusion at this point really boils down to the fact that you showed up at the wrong place to obtain help with this adventure of yours. This forum is NOT a school and although we have a large number of very knowledgeable people who are very generous with their time and their help, we're not teaching class here. You really need to pursue your hobby, this learning experience, somewhere else. As for the purchasing of equipment, that's your decision where to spend your money (I know it's "not about the money"). Also, we are not a Sales organization here or even Purchasing Consultants, so it is unlikely there will be anyone who can help you out making those decisions. So I guess this forum is for...... what exactly? I see plenty of other posts asking about equipment or what's best or this or that. If I hadn't given my background and just came in here and said something like, "Hi. I'm new here. I'm buying this stuff. What do you think of said products and do you have any advice on said items?" I seriously doubt I would have gotten the response I did. Would you like me to prove that to you by searching and linking previous, similar posts? It might be a good lesson in perception for some people. Your perception of me was unfavorable from my first post because I said too much about myself and my experience (these kinds of forums are ALWAYS biased against lessor experienced people, ALWAYS.) and so judgements and assumptions were made that dictated the way people acted toward me. I can show you threads where people acted the opposite way because they were unsure of the skill level of an individual asking for advice about something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atheisticmystic Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Lastly, the FLAME WARS must stop! You all know who you are. Please bring this back to civility without any name calling or abandon this thread all together. Copy that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 So I guess this forum is for...... what exactly? I see plenty of other posts asking about equipment or what's best or this or that. If I hadn't given my background and just came in here and said something like, "Hi. I'm new here. I'm buying this stuff. What do you think of said products and do you have any advice on said items?" I seriously doubt I would have gotten the response I did. True. So? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemalice Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 So, everything's working out just fine except for the sound? What does that tell you about your collective knowledge to produce a TV episode? Maybe production sound recording isn't in the cards for any of the three of you and you will have to reach out to someone else (another cousin or another best friend) to help you out with the sound. Again, that's not going to happen here (painfully obvious). Lastly, the FLAME WARS must stop! You all know who you are. Please bring this back to civility without any name calling or abandon this thread all together. I appreciate what you're saying Mr. Wexler but maybe you didn't read all the posts. Understandable. It's full of a lot of nonsense and childishness. (myself included). The sound WAS horrible until I went out this weekend to help and I improved the sound a massive amount on my own and identified some areas where some other equipment would really help us out. I am now trying to learn as much as possible to facilitate this. I did not come here for a class or anyone to divulge any secrets. I simply asked for advice on the products I had picked out from my research and I didn't know exactly what cabling I needed to order and was hoping someone would help me out with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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