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Need some advice. Noob to production mixing on indie set.


bluemalice

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How exactly would you suggest that I get over myself? From the very beginning I explained how noobish I was... I'm guessing maybe you're another person who didn't actually READ the thread, just jumped on a bandwagon.

Also, I will definitely return and show you guys what we made. I fully expect the sound to be sub-par to this forum's members. I'm saying this now because people can't seem to get it through their heads that I realize I know nothing about sound recording for film or television stuff...

It's your attitude that stinks. That's what Crew is trying to tell you. It doesn't take reading an entire thread for anyone to see this.

Youve come here, insulted practically everyone, and still find it necessary to have the last word.

Jeff,

86 this guy please

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There are many nice people here, myself included... The internet removes any communication other than the written word, that can make things difficult....

In my first response to you I warned you to get some thick skin, this thread is exactly what I meant.... As well intentioned as one may be, you may not like the written tone.... it's just communication... don't take everything so personally.... As one who uses Forums, and you say you do, you should know this....

I will say it again, and I mean this.... If you plan on even PLAYING in this field, just for fun.... THICKEN YOUR SKIN< SOME people involved in this business, in every department, can be brash, standoffish, selfish, rude, arrogant and on and on.... This little forum is nothing compared to reality... and life.... As soon as you walk from your friends and try to use your gear in the real world, if you havn't gone on to a field in world peace, you will see this first hand.... The majority of Motion picture film worker folks will roast you where you stand...

Baby gloves come off on a professional forum... just understand that.... as someone mentioned, you just asking what to do with a Hirose plug might of served you better... It's hard for many of us to always start at the beginning.... "Once upon a time...."

I am glad you made some friends..... now that this BM person has run his course.... wait a week.... relog in under a different name and start over... I would, I am sure you are a nice guy.... just be modest, you know nothing... admit it, learn, understand and grow.... Like everyone must do....

Just start over.... there is a protocol of sorts, unwritten, but there...

And as hard as it is, keep your cool, and no name calling.... it serves no good purpose.... trust me on that one....

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Like I said. There are a lot of people here that would like to post but are also intimidated by the way this forum treats people.

I've never been intimidated to post here. Granted, I try to not ask a question if I can find the answer with a little "homework" done on my part.

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It's your attitude that stinks. That's what Crew is trying to tell you. It doesn't take reading an entire thread for anyone to see this.

Youve come here, insulted practically everyone, and still find it necessary to have the last word.

Jeff,

86 this guy please

So you think it's not logical for a person to have an attitude at this point? If you go back and read the thread, you can see the progression of things turned ugly when certain people started purposefully making negative comments and trolling the thread. I think I have a right to an attitude after that. It's crazy how much this forum thinks its shit don't stink...

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So you think it's not logical for a person to have an attitude at this point? If you go back and read the thread, you can see the progression of things turned ugly when certain people started purposefully making negative comments and trolling the thread. I think I have a right to an attitude after that. It's crazy how much this forum thinks its shit don't stink...

So everyone is crazy but you?

It all makes sense now.

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There are many nice people here, myself included... The internet removes any communication other than the written word, that can make things difficult....

In my first response to you I warned you to get some thick skin, this thread is exactly what I meant.... As well intentioned as one may be, you may not like the written tone.... it's just communication... don't take everything so personally.... As one who uses Forums, and you say you do, you should know this....

I will say it again, and I mean this.... If you plan on even PLAYING in this field, just for fun.... THICKEN YOUR SKIN< SOME people involved in this business, in every department, can be brash, standoffish, selfish, rude, arrogant and on and on.... This little forum is nothing compared to reality... and life.... As soon as you walk from your friends and try to use your gear in the real world, if you havn't gone on to a field in world peace, you will see this first hand.... The majority of Motion picture film worker folks will roast you where you stand...

Baby gloves come off on a professional forum... just understand that.... as someone mentioned, you just asking what to do with a Hirose plug might of served you better... It's hard for many of us to always start at the beginning.... "Once upon a time...."

I am glad you made some friends..... now that this BM person has run his course.... wait a week.... relog in under a different name and start over... I would, I am sure you are a nice guy.... just be modest, you know nothing... admit it, learn, understand and grow.... Like everyone must do....

Just start over.... there is a protocol of sorts, unwritten, but there...

And as hard as it is, keep your cool, and no name calling.... it serves no good purpose.... trust me on that one....

My skin is impervious. I'm just responding in kind. Once again you tell me to "admit" that I know nothing etc... How many times do I have to ACTUALLY admit that in this thread before people realize I said it from the very beginning?? Makes absolutely no sense...

I do NOT plan on doing anything in this field that isn't helping out another noob... I won't be walking from my friends to the "real world" as you say, to record audio as a job... I've stated this many times.

It seems to me, it's the folks on this forum that can't take it... A noob stating he's a noob and asking questions!?!? For shame! I shall now insult his intelligence, assume the worst and perpetually troll with useless information to show him how much smarter about this topic I am than he is...

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So everyone is crazy but you?

It all makes sense now.

If by everyone you mean 5 or 10 people strutting around on a forum, sure I do. I have at least 4 or 5 in messages that think you guys were being dicks too so that kinda equals out. Opinions are like assholes and all that...

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Money isn't an issue as far as cost except that I just have to justify the cost to what it is for me, a hobby. So as a hobby, I can't justify spending 3k on a mic or 2900 on a mixer etc... but it seems ok to spend 1200 on a mixer and 600 on a mic for me. That's just a personal thing really as well as I think it would be YEARS AND YEARS before I would even be competent to get anything out of the extra features as the price goes up.

Then I think the best course would probably be to rent this gear, and not blow $3000-$5000 on a very basic setup. You could rent a decent recorder, small mixer, a couple of wireless, and a boom for a fraction of this amount, even for several weeks.

Hiring an experienced sound mixer would very likely make a huge difference in post. Remember, it's not just the equipment: it's knowing where and how to use it. Not to compare the degree of difficulty of the work with that of a surgeon, but if I buy a scalpel, I'm not necessarily qualified to use it. I could probably remove an appendix if I had to... the problem is all the work that goes before and after it.

There's been many, many good tips on this site for the past 5-6 years. Some good basic books can be found at this link:

I would add to that a brand-new book that just came out, Rick Viers' The Location Sound Bible: How to Record Professional Dialog for Film and TV. I don't agree with all his conclusions, and there's some stuff omitted plus some hasty generalizations, but it's still a very good introductory text.

I think I learned more from John Purcell's Dialogue Editing for Motion Pictures: A Guide to the Invisible Art, because it shed a lot of light on what happens to the sound we capture in the field, and how dialogue editors and re-recording mixers shape, polish, and (sometimes) replace the sound for the final mix.

I've worked in post for more than 25 years, and done sound for 7 additional years, and I still learn new things every day. Location sound is definitely one of those jobs where "the more I learn, the more I realize, the less I know." Vast, vast, very complex subject.

P.S. Calm down, bear in mind that there are professionals who resent low-paid (or no-paid) people nibbling at their jobs, and understand that first impressions are important. There are many good, solid, honorable people here, many who might even be able to help you if you'll listen.

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BM, by saying you know nothing, all I am saying is be modest, you have not earned any respect, until yo do, just be modest... why is that so hard for you...

You asked what you needed to make your package work... I said everything including the kitchen sink... it was meant in jest, thats alll... Do I really need to explain that? You need skills first and foremost... why is that bad advice? I still don't get that... I was trying to emphisize the importance of a BASE... You seemed to be jumping off a cliff without a chute... I could tell by your package... We've seen it as has been mentioned hundreds of times... please understand that... You took total offense of that advice and went on a tear, all because you lack Forum understanding... I am also on forums for Bikes, guns, Jeeps and other stuff, they are ALL the same... There IS a way to let your guard down and just communicate... don't get so bruised... why don't you just get that? Not bad people, poor understanding of the medium.

The term Noobie is not the most endearing.... it's horrible and serves no proper purpose... Maybe... Hey a few quick questions....

Picture yourself as a new rookie on a Pro Football team.... do they act as you? do they behave by calling names and expecting the team to fall in line with them? think about what you are asking.... Were a team of sorts here, and you are the rookie.... act like one by using some common sense and modesty.... you still dont get it.... Thats OK, I understand.... you just don't get it...

I do NOT plan on doing anything in this field that isn't helping out another noob... I won't be walking from my friends to the "real world" as you say, to record audio as a job... I've stated this many times.

Then save yourself the time, money and grief, and everyones time here for that matter, and plug a mic into your ZOOM and point it at the sound source.... thats all you need to know.... There you have it ::)

Who has Senator Mikes number LOL....

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Then I think the best course would probably be to rent this gear, and not blow $3000-$5000 on a very basic setup. You could rent a decent recorder, small mixer, a couple of wireless, and a boom for a fraction of this amount, even for several weeks.

Hiring an experienced sound mixer would very likely make a huge difference in post. Remember, it's not just the equipment: it's knowing where and how to use it. Not to compare the degree of difficulty of the work with that of a surgeon, but if I buy a scalpel, I'm not necessarily qualified to use it. I could probably remove an appendix if I had to... the problem is all the work that goes before and after it.

There's been many, many good tips on this site for the past 5-6 years. Some good books can be found at this link:

I would add to that a brand-new book that just came out, Rick Viers' The Location Sound Bible: How to Record Professional Dialog for Film and TV. I don't agree with all his conclusions, and there's some stuff omitted plus some hasty generalizations, but it's still a very good introductory text.

I think I learned more from John Purcell's Dialogue Editing for Motion Pictures: A Guide to the Invisible Art, because it shed a lot of light on what happens to the sound we capture in the field, and how dialogue editors and re-recording mixers shape, polish, and (sometimes) replace the sound for the final mix.

I've worked in post for more than 25 years, and done sound for 7 additional years, and I still learn new things every day. Location sound is definitely one of those jobs where "the more I learn, the more I realize, the less I know." Vast, vast, very complex subject.

P.S. Calm down, bear in mind that there are professionals who resent low-paid (or no-paid) people nibbling at their jobs, and understand that first impressions are important. There are many good, solid, honorable people here, many who might even be able to help you if you'll listen.

I know renting makes more sense to most people but it doesn't for me. That's just a personal preference thing that I realize sounds crazy to most. I get that.

Hiring someone to do anything is completely out of the question. We are all noob enough that we want to noob this up together and see what we can come up with and what we learn for the next go round.

As for the analogy, I fully expect the sound work to be exactly like ripping out an appendix using the book, "How To Be Your Own Doctor." We're ok with that and we will learn from this.

I've done sound recording and editing for about 8 years as a hobby in my home for music mostly. That's my only relative experience other than the few shoots I've been a part of so far. I understand how sound works and what it is. I taught myself to play piano and guitar (and still learn new stuff all the time) and so got interested in sound from a scientific point of view and just studied it on my on for a while. I took music in college. I realize none of this is related to sound recording on a set etc... Just a background of why I like the idea of learning it.

I understand the thing about the pros not liking the low-paid or the undercutters. Thing is, I stated early on that's not even me... This project would never have a paid sound guy anyway, ever. Other projects may in the future but unless I'm actually that competent by then, it wouldn't be me doing it. I also realize there are some good guys here because a lot of them PM'd me and I really appreciate that from the folks that did.

I purchased one DVD on the basics but it's a little bit too basic for my current level. It was called Sound for Film and Television. I ordered a couple of books that haven't arrived yet but I WAS wondering where to go with reading material and/or some instructional dvd material after that. I will definitely check out those books and that site you linked. Thank you for taking the time to do that.

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BM, by saying you know nothing, all I am saying is be modest, you have not earned any respect, until yo do, just be modest... why is that so hard for you...

You asked what you needed to make your package work... I said everything including the kitchen sink... it was meant in jest, thats alll... Do I really need to explain that? You need skills first and foremost... why is that bad advice? I still don't get that... I was trying to emphisize the importance of a BASE... You seemed to be jumping off a cliff without a chute... I could tell by your package... We've seen it as has been mentioned hundreds of times... please understand that... You took total offense of that advice and went on a tear, all because you lack Forum understanding... I am also on forums for Bikes, guns, Jeeps and other stuff, they are ALL the same... There IS a way to let your guard down and just communicate... don't get so bruised... why don't you just get that? Not bad people, poor understanding of the medium.

The term Noobie is not the most endearing.... Maybe... Hey a few quick questions....

Picture yourself as a new rookie on a Pro Football team.... do they act as you? do they behave by calling names and expecting the team to fall in line with them? think about what you are asking.... Were a team of sorts here, and you are the rookie.... act like one by using some common sense and modesty.... you still dont get it.... Thats OK, I understand.... you just don't get it...

I do NOT plan on doing anything in this field that isn't helping out another noob... I won't be walking from my friends to the "real world" as you say, to record audio as a job... I've stated this many times.

Then save yourself the time, money and grief, and everyones time here for that matter, and plug a mic into your ZOOM and point it at the sound source.... thats all you need to know.... There you have it ::)

I'm not going to enumerate for you once again all the places you made broad generalizations and assumptions directed at me. There's a reason that in conversation you're supposed to respond to what the other person actually says or asks and not go off on an un-asked for, philosophical, journey into all the things I should have already done before I dared ask a question here or before I dared consider buying equipment you think is overkill for my project. That reason is because respectful communication because with listening and then reciprocating in kind. It's mind numbingly irritating to have to wade through all the nonsense on a forum... Internet commandos are EVERYWHERE. In my opinion, if you don't have anything to say about what I actually asked, why say anything? I'm grown just like you and I know when I need to study more or do more research. I know what my capabilities are just like you know what yours are. Mutual respect isn't something "earned" as people like to state, it's something we inherently should receive as free human beings until we no longer deserve it. Making assumptions about my skill levels and what I need or don't need and then telling me what I should do instead of what I asked about just shows a complete lack of any respect for the other person involved in the conversation.

Almost EVERYTHING you mentioned in your first response to me was something I already know about and have already put into practice on the set. That doesn't mean I'm good at it but it means I already know about it and the rest is going to be trial and error learning experiences on my end.

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Oh and also to Marc Wielage.

My cousin doesn't have anything professional level under his belt but he's been editing film and audio for probably 13 or 14 years. He started out on Super 8 with a splicer. He knows probably just enough for us to get by in post on the sound side of things. We're expecting it to be good enough for what this is and hopefully a huge learning process for him since this is the first really lengthy thing he's ever done.

I don't know if they teach any audio post in film school or not but he graduated film school and did a film for that etc...

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I come from a similar background of home recording. Learned drums, guitar and bass by ear. Toured as a drummer for 6 years. Recorded my own stuff and others in my home studio. None of that prepared me in any way for recording dialogue on location. Its a totally different bird. Sure, some of the basics apply, but in practice, its way different.

I think what a lot of folks are saying here is that if you aren't wanting to pursue location sound recording as a career, it would be better to spend the many thousands of dollars on hiring a pro instead of buying gear. You would get awesome results from that money. This is regardless of how much disposable income you have. If you just want to have fun and learn the gear, then buy it and use it and have fun. The best learning is in the doing, which is another lesson to learn here.

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Oh and also to Marc Wielage.

My cousin doesn't have anything professional level under his belt but he's been editing film and audio for probably 13 or 14 years. He started out on Super 8 with a splicer. He knows probably just enough for us to get by in post on the sound side of things. We're expecting it to be good enough for what this is and hopefully a huge learning process for him since this is the first really lengthy thing he's ever done.

I don't know if they teach any audio post in film school or not but he graduated film school and did a film for that etc...

Pros keep trying to help, and you just keep digging. Got to know when to say when, man.
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...I know when I need to study more or do more research.

I know what my capabilities are just like you know what yours are.

Almost EVERYTHING you mentioned in your first response to me was something I already know about and have already put into practice on the set. That doesn't mean I'm good at it but it means I already know about it and the rest is going to be trial and error learning experiences on my end.

Jeff, if you were to scuttle this thread so deep into the ocean, even the prehistoric bird shit that fell on Atlantis would be found before any remnant of this pointless conversation...I think you would be forgiven. :'(

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"I'm guessing maybe you're another person who didn't actually READ the thread, just jumped on a bandwagon."

Sadly I've read the whole thread at work today. You are assuming this as you berate others for assuming whatever about you...

At first read I thought you were another new guy wanting advise. Nothing wrong with that. Now I think you are just a needy troll that gets off arguing and not listening. Go do your chosen work and let it speak for itself. Personally I don't give a flying fuck how you spend your money or your time. Walk away from the keyboard and live the life you want. Don't bore us with your self persecuted drama about how working sound recordist don't understand you... Believe me when I say you are not the 1st here @jwsound to play this card game. Best of luck in your endeavors.

CrewC

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Pros keep trying to help, and you just keep digging. Got to know when to say when, man.

How is stating a fact digging anything? This is what I don't get about the people here. There are different levels of knowledge and skill. We are on the extremely low end right now but that doesn't mean we're idiots and can't make something decent just because we're not pros. I mean I stated he knows probably just enough for us to get by... How is this in any way shunning what Marc said or not listening to it? I responded to him before that and agreed with him and thanked him for his help...

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Jeff, if you were to scuttle this thread so deep into the ocean, even the prehistoric bird shit that fell on Atlantis would be found before any remnant of this pointless conversation...I think you would be forgiven. :'(

That would be nice for you right? Then you wouldn't have to live with the fact that you acted like a huge troll throughout this entire thread because it would be erased.

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"I'm guessing maybe you're another person who didn't actually READ the thread, just jumped on a bandwagon."

Sadly I've read the whole thread at work today. You are assuming this as you berate others for assuming whatever about you...

At first read I thought you were another new guy wanting advise. Nothing wrong with that. Now I think you are just a needy troll that gets off arguing and not listening. Go do your chosen work and let it speak for itself. Personally I don't give a flying fuck how you spend your money or your time. Walk away from the keyboard and live the life you want. Don't bore us with your self persecuted drama about how working sound recordist don't understand you... Believe me when I say you are not the 1st here @jwsound to play this card game. Best of luck in your endeavors.

CrewC

If you don't give a flying fuck, why did you enter into this conversation? Just to try and get in on some of the action? I didn't assume anything either. Your previous post very glaringly indicates you didn't read everything. It's obvious that you skimmed a good bit.

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If you knew so much before posting the original post, why then did you need to ask your questions here, why in all your headfull of knowledge did you simply not call up a Pro audio supply store? For someone repeatedly boasting of their smarts.... why?... I will never understand this.... I would of called LSC and asked.... but thats me, I know they exist.... Early on you were told they exist... whats the problem?

Sure you can ask here, but with your life story also told, we all get the same sick feeling of here we go again.... Please understand that.... can you ever just say... I get it? Probably not... you will post again about the same lame things.... over and over..... take care and good luck on your project... i wish you the best....

SENATOR!!!!! ;D

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THIS TOPIC IS CLOSED. No one will be censured, no one will be banned, but please, let's hope we never have to go through this kind of thing again.

If anyone here feels the need to contact me personally and privately, you can email me at:

jw -at- jwsoundgroup.net or use Messaging here on the site.

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