Need advise on Omni's for general use - if you could only buy one pair....

[Stef Albertyn]

Hi

I need to buy a set of stereo omni's that I would like to use for:

Types of recording

1) Atmosphere and nature

2) Acoustic instruments (Closer)

3) Choirs & orchestra

4) Organ

5) Brass Ensemble

6) Brass quintet

7) Chamber Strings

Other info -

I also have Schoeps CMIT5 & CCM8 in MS to add if needed

I also have a Neumann U87ai to help where needed.

Recording to Protools Via Apogee Trak2 and hopefully a Nagra vi in the very near future

I was looking at

1) DPA 4006 TLM Stereo kit

2) Schoeps Collette HS Stereo Kit

Will any of these mic's (or others) be able to cover all those recording needs. I only have budget for one set, and will then save up for an ortf setup as well.

Thank you!

[Alexander Burstein]

I also have a Neumann U87ai

Recording to Protools

By chance did you take a ProTools 5-10day training course? The guy on the phone said at the end we'd be given a Neumann U87ai!

[benr]

By chance did you take a ProTools 5-10day training course? The guy on the phone said at the end we'd be given a Neumann U87ai!

Wha? How much was that training course?!

[jrd456]

Not omni's

J.D.

[bleueblancrouge]

omni's work best in stereo with a sass or jecklin disk. maybe cardioids would suit your needs better.

[Matt Radlauer]

Take a look at the Blue Omni Mouse. Thry are not cheap but incredible sounding and a true omni mic.

[Tom Visser]

Perhaps not the most expensive or most refined, but the DPA 4060 either as the stereo kit or as a pair, are pretty great for production work. They also hold their own in the context of music recording. The fact that they are tiny and can be used in boundary layer configuration has made them infinitely useful in the context of film/tv production sound for ambience tracks and even as plant mics, especially in car scenes. When I read your list, as long as your not close mic'ing brass, they seem to check off every item in my mind.

[Stef Albertyn]

Thank you everyone and esp Tom for the replies.

No I did not take the Protools course - I have been using it since 1992 (V1.01) and Soundtools and Qsheet AV before then...

I paid for the Neumann (in 1998)

[Christian Spaeth]

Two omnis on a wide stereo bar is the standard Hauptmikrofon for classical recordings of any kind. I never used a disc or anything in between and AB-stero is still my favorite of all stereo setups, especially for ambience (besides maybe binaural, but that's another story). For the things you want to do with them either the Schoeps or the DPAs will be a great investment, but also consider the 4060s, just like Tom said.

[studiomprd]

" that I would like to use for:... "

this forum is not particularly optimal for what you plan to do.

even if it were, the answer is "it depends", as there are a lot, an awful lot, of potential mic's to select from in making this personal, subjective decision.

[Alexander Burstein]

Wha? How much was that training course?!

Four grand.

[Stef Albertyn]

Thank you everyone!

Mike - I know this forum is for dialogue recordists - which I do as well (not full time though). I posted the question here because very few contributors on other forums actually earn a living recording in the field (in all sorts of venues etc.) and not in studios, theatres and the likes. I am also aware that it is sujective - just wanted to hear what the pro's will use and chuck in their bags.

I think you can answer every single question on any forum with "it depends" - but that contributes nothing - rather give an opinion.

Ok - so I'm out of here...

[jrd456]

I have never heard of using omnidirectional mics for stereo recording except for the old sennheiser rig with a faux head between the 2 omni's. Some one explain why this is a good idea.

J.D.

[studiomprd]

" I have never heard of using omnidirectional mics for stereo recording "

thus my comment that this might not be the best forum for the question posed...

[OmahaAudio]

I have never heard of using omnidirectional mics for stereo recording except for the old sennheiser rig with a faux head between the 2 omni's. Some one explain why this is a good idea.

I believe that the fake-head-with-mics-in-place-of-ears thing was more binaural recording than sterophonic recording and the playback is supposed to be done using earphones and not speakers.

[Brian Liston]

This is the place for such discussions. Every board out there has a boisterous, useless commentator(s) that create unwanted noise. There is a filter for that. I welcome your query and am interested in other replies.

Neumann, now owned by Sennheiser I believe, made the funky head guy way back in the 80s (or before?). Designed to mimic the listening experience when played back through headphones. But, people use them for other playback uses. I saw some NFL film guys running around with one on a boom pole at a game once. They must have found an interesting use for it. They are ungodly expensive. In the 10K neighborhood if memory serves.

Obviously that is not what StefB is looking for. On that, the Schoeps would be my choice for your list. Especially with the different capsules you can get for them! I use my 414 stereo pair for many of those applications, but nature ambiences and the like are just not quite right for LDC mics. Having a CMIT myself, I want to hear some M/S recordings with the CCM8.

I believe that the fake-head-with-mics-in-place-of-ears thing was more binaural recording that sterophonic recording and the playback is supposed to be done using earphones and not speakers.

[jrd456]

Still, why would you use omni's to record stereo---makes no sense.

J.D.

[Brian Liston]

Coincident pairs would make little sense, but spaced, oh yeah! Omnis have a more linear off-axis response, and bass frequencies sound better all the way around. There are a lot of sonic compromises to get those directional patterns. A classical conductor client of mine insists on omni spaced pairs. And although I want to mock him in so many ways, his ears are amazing and he will let me know when something sounds "fake" as he calls it.

Still, why would you use omni's to record stereo---makes no sense.

J.D.

[AndyB]

I use a pair of omni's as overheads for drums most of the time. Using the simple "recorderman" 3 mic setup, the two omni's and an MD-421 on the kick drum gets me a nice natural full kit sound. I think if I were recording an acoustic band, I would run a pair of omni's wide left and right in front of the stage as a starting point. That's just me, though.

[Richard Thomas]

Omni's have no proximity effect (no effect on LF response in relaton to distance from the mic), so will have the most accurate frequency response at lower frequnecies. They'll also get more of the room than other mics and have a closer critical distance.

Stereo effects with a spaced pair ( A-B ) are created through time differences between signals getting to each microphone. Disadvantages with this are that there's often a 'hole' in the middle of the stereo image that you don't get with a coincident stereo techniques

Also have a look at Sennheiser 8020's and Schoeps MK2's

Apparently earthworks mics are nice too but a bit on the noisy side (depends how loud your sources are)

[studiomprd]

" why would you use omni's to record stereo "

to avoid --or at least minimize-- off axis colorations

[ramallo]

I'm very happy with Earthworks omnis (Are a bit noisy with very quiet sources), usually I use a pair with a Jecklin disk

http://www.freesound.org/people/ramagochi/sounds/120697/

[Wyatt Tuzo]

Another vote for a spaced omni pair for music recording.

[engaudio]

I'm very surprised that several posters here have no idea that the majority (ok, a lot) of classical music is recorded using just 2x omni mics. (or a Decca tree, 3x omnis in a triangle)

Grant.

(null)

[jonathan chiles]

Agree with Grant, homework for the weekend is below

http://www.rycote.com/images/uploads/The_Stereophonic_Zoom.pdf

This is a pretty definitive article on stereo techniques