afewmoreyears Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 God just rent a non-shotgun then. It is crazy to think of having to mic these people you speak of. In my experience everyone says that you'll have all the time in the world, but trust me once that person gets in the room, they (director and dp) want that person in the seat and ready to shoot. I see no sense in lav'ing at all here IMO. If your going to the camera, it is much better again IMO to send the boom to both channels, one kissing the limiter and one -10 or so down as a safety. I hate lavs, they make our jobs a nervous wreck...and they often don't make a lot of sense/sound as good. Dont agree at all... Roberts take is spot on in my opinion... Do both, the boom SHOULD sound great if it's a nice mic and properly placed... then Lav em as well on the other channel... give them the option... then, you did all you could... All thats been suggested plus: If you simply let them know ahead of time you will need just a few moments to get the pack on or in a pocket and run your mic and mount it, it should be a non issue.. be professional and work quietly letting the director communicate with the person if necessary during the process... Properly placed quality Lav mics like a Sanken COS 11 can sound GREAT, and in many cases provide an isolated nice sounding track .... If you have one, try a B6 Countryman (maybe even in the correct color) and expose it a bit... it is so small and can be hidden almost in plain sight while minimizing the usual mounting difficulties many people struggle with. No reason to be nervous, plan ahead, have your box of mounting tapes and hardware right there and go to work... You will now have hopefully 2 great tracks... and if a weed eater down the block fires up, chances are that LAV will make much of it disappear with the excellent signal to noise ratio you will get with it.. and as a bonus, if you have an issue with one mic or the other, instead of having 2 dead or bad tracks, you have a built up back-up right there and working... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Miramontes Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 As the last two guys have said, " do both". In regards them being non-professional you just have to set the tone that you "are the professional". As previously mentioned just tell them what you're doing before you do it and always let them know where your hands are going next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sounddguy Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Ex President Bill Clinton was burned wearing a wireless/lav that was not turned off when necessary and was overhead with a very nasty remark. Part of being a pro is protecting anyone wearing your wireless. For several years I worked a live meeting where the main guy would have lots of side conversations while others were speaking. (This was a free flow discussion forum.) I monitored the conversation for clues of where we were going next and passed that info to the video crew so they could be looking for the next shot, but never mentioned anything else I heard and kept him ducked unless speaking to the audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrengun Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 There are a few priorities that I stress to talent about wireless mics: sound, privacy, and comfort. When they realize that their legitimate concerns about privacy and comfort are my concerns as well, the rest is easy. Also, for corporate gigs you generally don't have to be as invasive with placement. The scenarios just don't require it. If anything might be considered too invasive don't forget that you have an ally with wardrobe or even hair/makeup. They have already established trust with the talent during an intimate process of their own and are often willing to assist with placing a leg strap etc. Many times I don't need to touch talent at all! They drop down the wire, I tape it to clothing, and clip the transmitter to a belt or waistband. And as someone mentioned above, an introduction from the producer/director is always helpful, maybe even requisite. Somewhere on this site, Jan McLaughlin has an absolutely fantastic quote about the great privilege we enjoy in having the talent's voice piped directly to our ears and our duty to protect it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Parham Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 +1 for boom. I notice when I do corporate stuff, the employees expect a level of technology, but you really have to explain/talk why you're hiding it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A-Ribeiro Posted August 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Gotta love this group! Thanks for the valuable input, lots of reasonable suggestions and good advice. The proof is in the listening - if the room is more reverberant than usual, you may find that you can't get pleasing results no matter how you position the shotgun. It is a reception area, with lots of bare walls, mirrors, and stone. I`ll be booming with a CS3, and will try to keep away from strong reflection points. And yes, a non-shotgun is on the wishlist... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 " but the fact that we will need to hide the lavs is making this particular shoot a bit more challenging. " unreasonable expectations by the production ?? This topic is a regurgitation of several previous threads. constructive part: the Sanken CS-3 will be fine; boom it. if you are selling your self as an equipped professional sound person, equip yourself; if the production isn't paying enough, see my first comment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) Indeed explain more what you do. I did a lot of wiring inexperienced people, even on bras, g-strings (TX...) and whatever more. Just be quick, explain well what you do,ale a quick joke and that's about it I guess. I had a wacky industrial shoot in a factory a couple of months ago where I think I did 60 people in two days. By far, the most lav wiring I've ever done by myself, in that short a period. In this case, the environment was so noisy -- 92dB background noise SPL -- I resorted to using the external directional Countryman B2, so we clipped them and went with it. I gave the director a quick comparison between this and an omni, and it was night and day better. I don't think even an 816 would've made a difference in background noise level. We still had to deal with a lot of T-shirts, brassieres, and so on, but I think if you keep a calm "bedside manner," the people will trust you and not get uncomfortable. These were quick 15-minute "sound bite" interviews, but I was still dizzy by the end of it. If we had to hide the lav, I find wiring them up with some privacy helps a bit, especially if there's a production rep (make-up, etc.) to help wrangle the clothing and stay efficient. In a quiet (or at least "controlled") room, a boom can sound infinitely better. I continue to be amazed by how different an identical lav can sound on different people -- "chesty" on some, "nasal" on another, "crisp" on a third. Same placement, same conditions, just very different voices. Edited November 25, 2012 by Marc Wielage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_bollard Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 That's why if you have the time to test lav mics out and you have a few to choose from you may find that a Cos11 is throaty on a particular lady and something else sounds just right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent R. Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 In a quiet (or at least "controlled") room, a boom can sound infinitely better. I continue to be amazed by how different an identical lav can sound on different people -- "chesty" on some, "nasal" on another, "crisp" on a third. Same placement, same conditions, just very different voices. FWIW: I recently re-discovered the Voice Technologies 506, I have them for years, but after a somewhat "follow the crowed" period of using a cos-11 as basic, I found out that the VT is way more all round and giving me less of different results. Especially the high boost makes it more suitable for under cover. iMHo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atheisticmystic Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 I continue to be amazed by how different an identical lav can sound on different people -- "chesty" on some, "nasal" on another, "crisp" on a third. Same placement, same conditions, just very different voices. That's why if you have the time to test lav mics out and you have a few to choose from you may find that a Cos11 is throaty on a particular lady and something else sounds just right. I found out that the VT is way more all round and giving me less of different results. Especially the high boost makes it more suitable for under cover. iMHo As the owner of exactly (2) COS-11 microphones and (1) ME2 "stunt mic", I remember how excited I got the first time I worked as Marc's second and opened up the pelican case and found myself looking at rows and rows of different lavaliers! How often do you change lavs in between takes or set-ups after finding out that a particular female voice sounds like a bike horn through the COS-11? Best, Steven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afewmoreyears Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 For me personally, I EQ..... depending on time or situational constraints... It usually does the trick for me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Radlauer Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 Work with the camera man and the client. Ask. If you know how the shot will be framed place the lav just out of frame. Quick and dirty... No hands in shirts etc. And of course use your boom! I think you should be careful not to over think this. If you are not confident wiring someone... Anyone, then your client will know and so will the subject. And could make the lesser experienced subject nervous. I personally try to hide my lav whenever possible. I hate seeing a mic, but I'm always sure to be flexible to my clients needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 I personally try to hide my lav whenever possible. I hate seeing a mic. Never understood that mind set. Any time I can get a lav on the outside I know there will be no clothing issues and things just go faster & easier. Any producer/director that has no problem with seeing the lav is my new best friend. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gilbert Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 I personally try and get the cleanest sound possible, if the producer/director or the situation allow for a visible mic, I'm all for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Radlauer Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 Never understood that mind set. Any time I can get a lav on the outside I know there will be no clothing issues and things just go faster & easier. Any producer/director that has no problem with seeing the lav is my new best friend. Eric Again this is just personal preference. I will do WHATEVER it takes to get perfect sound for my client. I am finding more and more that clients do not want to see the mic...especially corporate shoots where an exec thinks its tacky... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 " Never understood that mind set. " me either... also can't understand why so many folks want to hide the mic's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 Again this is just personal preference. I will do WHATEVER it takes to get perfect sound for my client. I am finding more and more that clients do not want to see the mic...especially corporate shoots where an exec thinks its tacky... They think it's tacky? Let's see, Jay Leno wears a visable lav as does David Lettermam, Brian Williams on NBC Nightly news and just about everyone on live TV and the President of The U.S. wears one in sit down interviews. If it's not a scripted project then a visable lav is just fine. Besides no one cares as long as it sounds good. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Radlauer Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 They think it's tacky? Let's see, Jay Leno wears a visable lav as does David Lettermam, Brian Williams on NBC Nightly news and just about everyone on live TV and the President of The U.S. wears one in sit down interviews. If it's not a scripted project then a visable lav is just fine. Besides no one cares as long as it sounds good. Eric Thats what I think as well. However I've got a few very large corporate clients who's execs EGO's are a bit inflated. Basically they have too much say in how the production goes and they are not allowing the professionals to do what they do best. Many time's I find myself thinking "why can't they just come in...read the prompter and leave?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 " They think it's tacky? " Tacky?? NO it is cool, like Conan, Jimmy, Carson, Craig, etc. etc. etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r.paterson Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 FWIW: I recently re-discovered the Voice Technologies 506, I have them for years, but after a somewhat "follow the crowed" period of using a cos-11 as basic, I found out that the VT is way more all round and giving me less of different results. Especially the high boost makes it more suitable for under cover. iMHo yes i have got some vt506 and vt500's and also rediscovered them again recently having not used them for a couple of years since getting them, using them more instead of the cos11, i also think the vt506 is best of the bunch for when in a very loud enviroment, sorry for changing track.. richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted August 25, 2012 Report Share Posted August 25, 2012 They think it's tacky? Let's see, Jay Leno wears a visable lav as does David Lettermam, Brian Williams on NBC Nightly news and just about everyone on live TV and the President of The U.S. wears one in sit down interviews. If it's not a scripted project then a visable lav is just fine. Besides no one cares as long as it sounds good. I've told this (gently) to several newbie documentary directors, but they're convinced that if they see the lav, the audience will see it and be distracted by it. My usual retort is, "as far as I'm concerned, 60 Minutes has been the gold standard for TV documentaries for 40 years, and they've always used visible lavs. BUT: I'll hide the lav if this is what you need." It's always incredible to me how much neophyte filmmakers are concerned about the wrong things, and don't care (or aren't aware) about the right things, at least from my perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 " if they see the lav, the audience will see it and be distracted " and so once again, style triumphs over substance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chauncey Taylor Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Try a Lav Stick or Bullet. They should help, and it will create a physical barrier, it wil give a good impression of being prepared, should work faster and better, than sticking your hands inside their garments. Having proper tools for a job, is why you hire a professional. This could only reinforce an aire of professionalism. I had wanted to comment on this earlier and forgot which section it was in, I'm surprised no one offered this advice in this post yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syncsound Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 I've told this (gently) to several newbie documentary directors, but they're convinced that if they see the lav, the audience will see it and be distracted by it. My usual retort is, "as far as I'm concerned, 60 Minutes has been the gold standard for TV documentaries for 40 years, and they've always used visible lavs. BUT: I'll hide the lav if this is what you need." It's always incredible to me how much neophyte filmmakers are concerned about the wrong things, and don't care (or aren't aware) about the right things, at least from my perspective. This, and other related quotes, plus 1000000. The one argument I've never understood is "Because it will take the audience out of the story." You mean, they're fine with watching a reality show wherein the talent turn and give OTF interviews to someone standing just off camera (so that the viewers are fully aware that this is a doc-style reality show, where there are cameras, and interviewers, and so on), but that nearly imperceptible little black dot of a mic capsule will make them change the channel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.