Tapio Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 Hi, I recently noticed that my Denecke TS-3 slate can also output timecode from the same connector it uses for TC input when powering up the slate. I was wondering if I could use that output connector to sync multiple cameras to same TC. I would first sync the slate with 788T and then go to each camera and send the timecode from my slate. Has anyone here used your slate this way and is it as accurare as a SB-T or LockIt box? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 Yes, this works. Once you jam the slate (1/4" jack used as an INPUT) the same jack can be used as an output. With the correct cable, this 1/4" jack can connect to another slate, a sync box or a camera. I have done this a few times where the slate can be jammed and then handed off to camera dept. where they can use the slate to jam a sync box (to be put on the camera) and it's all in their hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergio Sanmiguel Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 Yes. That would work for jamming TC to cameras. the convenience of a SB-3 is that you can leave it permanently attached to camera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT Groove Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 I usually set the date in my Fusion then Jam my TS-C. The TS-C then jams all the sync boxes for each camera. The TS-C is also used for rejamming throughout the course of the day if necessary. But since I have an SB-3 on each camera an also on the Fusion, timecode is rock solid throughout the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapio Posted August 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 Thanks everyone! The output seemed very accurate in my tests but it is always somewhat relieving to hear that others have succesfully used this same method. We will start the filming of next season of Top Chef here tomorrow and I'm planning to use the slate for timecode output there. I've also thought about wearing my "Accept no Subs" t-shirt.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 Tapio, I have used this method for a few years now. The Denecke slate has same guts as Denecke boxes, so just as accurate. It's particularly great on cameras requiring jamming (Alexa for example). I have the camera department order 1/4" to Alexa jam cables with their package. My utility hands off slates to camera in the morning and after lunch, and that's it. It's the current workflow on our show, and works great. I'd suggest you do the same. Have them order the jam cables and shift that responsibility where it belongs. Have a great season. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapio Posted August 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 I'd suggest you do the same. Have them order the jam cables and shift that responsibility where it belongs. Have a great season. Robert Thank you! I'll do that! And since I'm the head of camera department (albeit lurking here on the sound professionals' forum) and also in charge of the post production workflow, it's really in my intrest to keep all the cameras and audio in perfect sync. I've already got the 1/4" to BNC cables. Since all recorders (video and audio) will be in TC sync and we also have the audiovisual slate (with TC) in the beginning of every multi-camera take, I think we should be ok. The sound recording system on this show is also quite demanding. We will have up to 17 wireless mics, three separate IFB feeds (two for hosts, one for director & scripty) and four wireless cam hops plus UHF radio comms between the director and cam ops. That's quite alot of RF going around in our studio. Our sound mixers are planning to use two ProTools stations (with Yamaha O2R96 mixers, I think) for ISO's and also for the stereo mix which will be sent to cameras. When we go into other locations, they use two 788's. The plan is to send to cameras a stereo mix that can be used for video editing and offlines etc. ISO tracks go directly to audio post in case something has to be fixed later. The stereo mix should in theory be so good that it can be used in the final program mix, ie. not just a "scratch track". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted August 26, 2012 Report Share Posted August 26, 2012 Very nice. Sounds like fun!! I bought an app called FreqFinder It's brilliant for coordinating RF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsnd Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 Protools will not have the ability to run a jammed timecode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Tuzo Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 I can almost assure that they are using metacorder not pro tools. I used to work top chef. Pretty standard setup. Eng mixers for each cam, metacorder backup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapio Posted August 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 Protools will not have the ability to run a jammed timecode. Actually it does, with a piece of hardware called Sync HD. http://www.avid.com/...roducts/SYNC-HD And I didn't remember the mixer correctly. They are using Yamaha DM2000 as the main board and some smaller one for additional feeds to cameras. Today we went all digital from 788's to camera in AES/EBU via Zaxcom links. In the studio they are planning to send a mono mix to one camera and different mixes (hosts vs competitors etc) and ISO's to other cameras and their different channels (4ch input with AES/EBU). And still every input is recorded as it's own ISO track in the ProTools. Now everyone should be happy in the production chain. Video editors get a nice mix on one or two tracks already synced to video in the camera (XDCAM HD, PDW-700 and -800) and audio post gets the ISO's if they need to fix something later. I also used the slate for syncing cameras today and it works perfectly. Nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 " I was wondering if I could use that output connector to sync multiple cameras to same TC. " which gets me to wondering... just what did you think that output connection was there for ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmahaAudio Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 " I was wondering if I could use that output connector to sync multiple cameras to same TC. " which gets me to wondering... just what did you think that output connection was there for ?? He didn't know, that's why he was asking. Pretty simple really. No need for insults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapio Posted August 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 just what did you think that output connection was there for ?? Obviously for timecode INPUT, as the user manual and Denecke website describes it. There is no mention anywhere (ie. user manual, Denecke website) that the same connector can also work as an OUTPUT. Clear enough for you? We are not all students here and this is not your classroom so there is really no need for you to try to boost your "credibility" or "authority" whenever possible. And no, English is not my mother tongue and I'm not fluent with it. Maybe you could correct my spelling as well? -t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 " I recently noticed that my Denecke TS-3 slate can also output timecode from the same connector it uses for TC input when powering up the slate. " sorry, I must have misunderstood you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 I recently discovered that also (I think prompted by something Robert Sharman had said) so I called Charlie at Denecke and humbled myself asking that very simple question. He confirmed that the INPUT (1/4" jack) once jammed becomes an OUTPUT as well. Nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 I recently discovered that also (I think prompted by something Robert Sharman had said) so I called Charlie at Denecke and humbled myself asking that very simple question. He confirmed that the INPUT (1/4" jack) once jammed becomes an OUTPUT as well. Nice! And I only found out because I was at Denecke chatting with Charlie about SB-3s and it came up in the conversation. I was happily surprised to learn the fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 On the back of the TS-3 is a diagram that shows the pin-out of the 4-pin XLR connector along with the phone plug time code connection. The pin-out legend is as follows: 1= GND 2=N/C 3=TC I/O 4=+6/14V The same diagram is also clearly shown in Denecke's "Slate Operating Instructions" document, but not in the "TS-3, Time Code Slate" brochure. So, the information is there, but not overly obvious. I knew I'd learned it from something Denecke had published, but I had to look to remember where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 Yeah, I only knew that the TS3 would work as a generator because Senator Michaels mentioned it to me 4 or 5 years ago... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Parra Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 Hi everyone, Just confirming the obvious here.... The 1/4 jack on the TS-2SB and TS-3 is an input at start up (slate turn on) and then becomes an output once the slate is running (numbers rolling). Please note that this is not the case with a TS-C. The only way to get TC out from a TS-C is through the 5 pin LEMO. It is sorta a hidden feature. Perhaps we should make it a bit more clear? Best Regards, Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 It is sorta a hidden feature. Perhaps we should make it a bit more clear? One o' dese days, I'm gonna rewrite that manual! (I still have them all, going back to the TS1.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundpod Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Resurrecting this old thread, If i wanted to jam a camera with the slate, do I have to change the switch setting from 'read' to 'run' in order to avoid having the slate jam from the camera code? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Mayer Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Resurrecting this old thread, If i wanted to jam a camera with the slate, do I have to change the switch setting from 'read' to 'run' in order to avoid having the slate jam from the camera code? No, if you flip to 'read' you will blow the slate timecode. Just use the 1/4" out as the output. Like Charlie says above, the 1/4" becomes an output once the slate is jammed and timecode is rolling. No chance the slate would jam from the camera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 I fitted my TS-3 slates with a 5 pin Lemo I use Denecke Sync Boxes which makes it more practical to jam cameras mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundpod Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 No, if you flip to 'read' you will blow the slate timecode. Just use the 1/4" out as the output. Like Charlie says above, the 1/4" becomes an output once the slate is jammed and timecode is rolling. No chance the slate would jam from the camera. Thanks for the quick reply Matt, but i was asking about flipping to 'run' BTW, the manual is very thin on info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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