José Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 My guideline is 2% of the value of gear. Mixer, 2 wires and a boom, is that an FP33, couple of G2, and a Rode NTG-2? ($2000 = $40/day) or are we looking at a 302, Lectro/Zaxcom, and CMIT ($10000 = $200/day)? If the rental fees for the duration of the entire project equals 50% of the purchase value, I'll start deducting days from the week (a month or more of work) or if it is a good regular client for a couple of weeks. In my mind, the total rental fee should not exceed or equal the value of the kit which means that for longer term TV projects, the daily rate could end up being less than 1%. I think guidelines like these leave no room for ambiguity and can easily be fairly calculated across different types of projects. It was from Tom's previous posting where I learned to adopt this percentage system about a year or so ago. This system has been working for me immensely. I itemize all my gear down to little stuff like NP1s and the charger, shockmounts, etc. Most of it at 2%. There are some items I calculate no less than 1.65% in price breaks. It works for the client and it definitely works for me. It's so straightforward. It's hard to cheat yourself when you look into the numbers like this. The client ends up paying a fair deal into my kit and I'm happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afewmoreyears Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 I was just talking to the PM I am working with. He was saying the grip/lighting houses bid down to a .2 day week. That's 20% of 1 days rental for the week. That's the result of one company trying to bid another out of business. We can't let that happen to us. The market can be dictated by the supplier, IF, we can all just stay the course. I will say it again.... and I know many of you guys think I'm nuts, but... Exactly.... just like Plumbers... They're all $65 an hour (or something like that) No matter where in the U.S. you go.... or motorcycle mechanics, or Electricians. Why are we different, why are we all over the place by a WIDE swing..... It should at least tighten up... a bit.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 I hate to get into specific numbers, but I don't know that it can do any harm. I generally negotiate $500-$550 for equip/day. For a 5 day week, this works out to $2500-$2750/week. This is pretty standard in NYC (at least as far as I know). That looks very reasonable from my point of view. If the producers were to piece a cart together from an outside rental house, I don't think they could get it down that low. I have no problem with a package deal, but where we do get in trouble is when we get to the shoot and the producer throws us a curveball. We can say, "well, I have it on the truck, but that was not part of our original deal." On the other hand, you can be a good guy and throw it in for free if it's a minor item. I just loaned the camera department a C-stand for an EPK shoot yesterday, and they were very grateful, not having to look at their monitor propped up on a Pelican case. I wouldn't dream of charging them for something this trivial. Good will counts for something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Tuzo Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 That looks very reasonable from my point of view. If the producers were to piece a cart together from an outside rental house, I don't think they could get it down that low. I think it's reasonable for both parties. If you consider a few 6-8 week movies per year, It works out to a substantial amount toward the equipment cost and maintenance. Where the production wins, is that you have all of the bells and whistles that they wouldn't get from a rental house (tents, carpets, backups, extra pelli batts, etc) The rental house may offer a 3 day week, but I can provide more at close to the weekly same price (and charge for additional days). These aren't the gigs that rental houses are generally vying for. I definitely think It's a balancing act. We all still kick special orders to our favorite rental house (and we SHOULD) The add-ons I mention above can often work out to a few hundred extra/week as well. Again, I am only speaking for the east-coast majors-rate union (dramatic) gigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 The rate Wyatt quoted is about the same in L A TV n Films... Commercials are a Basic package then ala carte like AFMY posted. Always by the day. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 " how do you come up with the cart rate? " see: it depends! AFMY covered the way major (union) commercials work. Wyatt covered the pattern for major features and TV... A long time ago I came to the conclusion that on a lot of projects the requirements of the project should not depend on a daily budget fight for a wireless mic rental, and that a kit or package was appropriate. All the little accessories, gadgets, gizmos, and problem solvers I have are part of that kit, and on a movie or TV show: 1 or 2 TC slates, a quad pack of wireless,backup's, follow cart(s), wireless boom if I choose to use it is my option so included, along with a basic kit of "comteks" (usually 4), PL, and my cart VDO. Mostly these projects have a proper budget for these, which may vary from production to production (lot to lot). A lot of the time that means take what you can get, and wangle for more as the opportunities arise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blas Kisic Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 For me.. Radio mics are $ 75 a day... for each one.. of course with a Lav, I have a few for eack unit, but a nice COS-11 is not cheap, and no matter how carefull you or your boom op is, they get thrashed a bit... pinched, pulled, crimped, tweaked at the cable capsule junction, on and on... Now I wont even mention what the transmitters sometimes go through... Knowing that, I do not for one moment feel even the least bit guilty saying... $75 a day... period... I disagree. It's not a reasonable -or typical, anyway- to expect that you will have a series of one-day gigs, one after the other, throughout the month - in other words, the common situation is that, at best, you'll have a day or two in between gigs. Which means that, statistically, even if you're very busy, it's unlikely you will have, say, 20 rental days in the month. So, if I have a gig that takes a few weeks, the gear is being "reserved," and paid for, by the production in question. I don't have to promote myself during that time, or spend time checking in and out, or prepping for jobs, etc. Therefore, th way I see it, I'm rewarding this production with a discount, for saving me those tasks and concerns during the number if weeks I'll be working for them. Now, whether that's a three day week or a four-day week, that's another matter. But I don't feel I'm cheapening myself or my profession by having special weekly rates. And, naturally, my time (my own day rate) is always daily. BK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamTimmer Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Your giving away money. There is no need to give a discount for longer jobs. unless your trying to come in cheaper than your competition I suppose. I just finished a 5 month gig. I charged everyday for the package. I did give them access to everything in my kit for the rate I negotiated but I felt that was fair. Also when you are booked for half a day, personally if I am getting paid hourly and depending on the union or nonunion nature of the project I have a minimum amount of hours for the call. Ie: worked 5 hours but my minimum is 8 hours so I get paid 8. As far as the gear goes a day worked is a day paid. 4 hours is the same as 18 hours. The reason is that gear has been booked for that day and the likelihood of it being able to go out on another job that day are pretty slim. I am talking dramatic work and have no idea how the other forms are doing things. I would also say though that we in the MOW, TV and feature worlds have been around longer and have more established practices that the newer styles of shooting which could maybe learn a lot from how we are billing. I learned my billing practices from my mentors and from union guidelines. I'm not trying to be holier than thou just trying to help people see that we are a valuable commodity and we should not need to discount our gear or our rates to get work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Davies Amps CAS Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 I also try to stick to 2% as a basic guideline. With three day weeks and the inevitable "deal" I usually have to give on an item or two sometimes it's closer to 1%. IMHO 2% is bang on target. 1% is too low. I turn out with 80K's worthe of gear on a lower end budget feature film and 2% is 1.6k per week which is what I charge without resorting to any 3 for 6 nonsense. Malcolm Davies. A.m.p.s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted August 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 This became even more true for me yesterday on a commercial. I was told we didn't need wireless mics, just boom. I had agreed to bill for Comteks as they are taken, and within minutes of being on set the director asked us to wire a few people. At the end of the day I invoiced for the Comteks and wireless mics. Went home with a check.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 " There is no need to give a discount for longer jobs. unless your trying to come in cheaper than your competition I suppose. " thus there is often a need... As for just a straight %, there are then a lot of exceptions to consider making... how about demand, and shelf-life ?? Thumpers and earwigs are pricey, and on most shows rarely needed. when needed, they get a larger rental rate than the 2% some folks want to specify. Shelf life includes both obsolescence and wear and tear... some items are not going to be as rent-able after some time frame (this particularly affects cameras!), so their costs must be recovered more quickly, other items may be more subject to abuse or forms of W&T, thus requiring additional maintenance and or frequent replacements and or upgrades. seems like a lot of "it depends" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blas Kisic Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 Also when you are booked for half a day, personally if I am getting paid hourly and depending on the union or nonunion nature of the project I have a minimum amount of hours for the call. Ie: worked 5 hours but my minimum is 8 hours so I get paid 8. As far as the gear goes a day worked is a day paid. 4 hours is the same as 18 hours. The reason is that gear has been booked for that day and the likelihood of it being able to go out on another job that day are pretty slim. Agree with the above 100%. As far as rental rates, thanks for opening my eyes. I really wasn't aware that it was normal for scripted work to charge daily. BK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.