where is -20 on the Red Epic?

[commpost]

I have read other posts of dissatisfaction with the Red Epic's cheezy mic-level audio inputs. At least it has meters on the screen, but they are unmarked. I can only guess where the -20 reference level is located. There are a few crosshairs on the meter, but I haven't a clue where to set a -20 tone with the supplied Epic attentuation sliders. Any suggestions how to calibrate this?

thx

Commpost

[Marc Wielage]

This has been requested before. I think it would be a fairly easy software update for them to recalibrate the meters so that 0 = 0dBfs, the midway point was labeled as -20dBfs, and a lower point was -30dBfs, and label them as such. Maybe even have a -10dBfs point for peaks.

The manual says:

To assist with audio reference level setup, the camera provides a color-coded Audio meter in the Graphical User Interface. Meter range is –36dBu to +20dBu (-56dBFS to 0dBFS) with audio input type and audio input clipping indication.

I don't know why they still reference analog audio in their measurements. I just use the hatch mark in the middle as -20dBfs, and hard-limit the feed going to the camera.

[John Blankenship]

I send a +20 signal to the Red and adjust it to right below the peak.

[Toy Robot]

I've always hated this. A 'color coded' meter, but with no reference / key as to what the colors correspond to. Brilliant. That's like giving a camera operator a lens that has f-stops labeled highest and lowest, but none in the middle and just a straight horizontal line from stop to stop so you have to guess where you are in the middle.

It's a total lack of foresight, but what can you expect from the same people that treat production sound like it doesn't exist?

[soundtrane]

+1

[commpost]

Blankenship and everybody -- thanks for the xlnt advice! That is a good idea.

Commpost

[commpost]

OH by the way, in my parlance, -20 is where the 1K tone should be referenced to. Therefore "0" db is maximum level on a digital meter. On an analog meter, 1K tone would be at zero, however. Correct me if I am wrong.

Commpost

[Steve Foy]

Analog: 120 dB Dynamic Range (From -96 dBu To +24 dBu) Typical Reference of 0 Vu is at +4 dBu (Some used -3 dBu).

Digital: 120 dB Dynamic Range (From -120dBFS To 0 dBFS) Typical Reference of 0 Vu is at -20 dBFS (Some use -18 dBFS).

Generally speaking Peak Programme should not exceed +10 dB above Reference.

[Rick Reineke]

-20 is where the 1K tone should be referenced to. Therefore "0" db is maximum level on a digital meter. On an analog meter, 1K tone would be at zero, however. Correct me if I am wrong.

"1K tone would be at zero 0"

Volume Units, aka, VU that is.

When DATs first reared their rotary heads we used to refer to -20dBFS (or -18dB) as "Digital zero".

[commpost]

"1K tone would be at zero 0"

Volume Units, aka, VU that is.

When DATs first reared their rotary heads we used to refer to -20dBFS (or -18dB) as "Digital zero".

Yep, exactly. That's the value I was looking for. As for the red epic with it's precise metering, I'll just take a wild guess as to where -20 is. It is just a scratch track, after all.

~ Commpost

[Chris McCallum]

I think we should be thankful for their lack of commitment to pro sound. It means more work and more gear rental for us

[Marc Wielage]

Generally speaking Peak Programme should not exceed +10 dB above Reference.

I'd say that may be true for final deliverable elements, but not necessarily for dailies. In fact, this may be looked upon as too low for a dailies mix. I don't have a problem knocking it up a few dB higher than that, as long as it's consistent day to day, and there's a limiter in the line.

I do agree that the iso tracks should peak at about -10dBfs if possible.

[studiomprd]

" but with no reference / key as to what the colors correspond to. "

perfect for their semi-pro (aka wanna-bee) customers who actually expect to use these for their sound recorders.

...as I said elsewhere...

and keep in mind: The ARRI Alexa is a computer made to be a camera by a camera company; the RED's are computers made to be cameras by a computer company....

[VM]

Any suggestions how to calibrate this?

Send a 1k at the max of your mixer, +20 on a SD302 (it's possible when you are in the menu, or at 0 dBfs with a 788. Adjust it at the clipping's limit on the Red.