Jeff Wexler Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Thank you so much Patrick Tresch for your personal account and history of this device, and WELCOME to our community! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 I don't care who designed it or how it works, as long as it does the job and is out of the camera dept's way on the cam. Anything to shut that damn fan up. I've been burned too many times by the fans of 2 Epics humming along in a small room buried HMI ballast noise or HVAC until it was too late. EPIC owners: pony up! phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Tresch Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Thank you Jeff Wexler for the kind words! Johnpaul215, The FanPlate is designed for the Red Epic (X and M) and Red Scarlet. The RED ONE is another beast and the FanPlate is not made for it. @Philip Perkins, The FanPlate won't help you for the HMI ballast ;-) and won't shut entirely the Epic up. It's an accessory that help quieting the Epic but the camera fan will always stay (at lower RPM). If you want a quiet camera, the DP and the AC are your best friends... You could point them to the solution we propose. If they don't care about the fan noise, nothing can help you. I know it's a pitty... Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 " If they don't care about the fan noise, nothing can help you. " Thak you Patrick, and welcome... That is my quote of the day... it isn't about sound caring about the fan noise, it is about the camera crew caring about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted September 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 I think it's also about the Producer and Director being cognizant of the noise issues caused by the camera, and the potential solutions (like the FanPlate) that can solve them. If this saves them 2-3 days of ADR or additional time from the dialogue editor and re-recording mixer having to do additional noise reduction passes, then the new external fan will have paid for itself. I congratulate Patrick and Jacques for their ingenuity, and I wish them much success when the product is launched! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb1138 Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 Oh look, it's now a similar size and in a similar position to the Alexa fan. Funny that. What an interesting phenomenon, having to buy so many add-ons just to make something "work". And RED didn't design this themselves? You'd think for, what, $50000 they could design a quieter camera like the Alexa. Yeah I guess it's tough "engineering" stuff. Sometimes the Alexa makes noise too.... I mean it's just an $800 upgrade, isn't it? A small addition to the bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsnd Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 Even if the fan quiets down it's still a loud camera. I have been in close quarters with the fan down low and even the processor whine is a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
api Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 The thermal output of Red cameras really is very considerable. You could practically dry your hair with the exhaust airflow! Alexa has a much less computing intensive compression scheme and a much larger camera body that dissipates heat more efficiently in addition to a peltier based cooling system. Epic and Scarlet are practically unusable in some situations such as non-stop interviews, acoustic live performances, intimate documenteries etc. If this accessory makes them realistic alternatives in such scenarios, it is almost the equivalent of getting a new camera. It is a very attractive proposition to an owner/operator. Yes, it is ridiculous that one has to buy an expensive accessory to "fix" a problem that shouldn't be there in the first place, but on the other hand one might ask if a Rycote style windscreen should be a standard part of a microphone retail package instead of just a foamie? I am really looking forward to this product. I also want to applaud Patrick and Jacques for coming up with an actual solution to an acute problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 " they could design a quieter camera like the Alexa... it's tough "engineering" stuff.. " The Alexa is a computer built by a camera company, The RED's are cameras built by a computer company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb1138 Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 " they could design a quieter camera like the Alexa... it's tough "engineering" stuff.. " The Alexa is a computer built by a camera company, The RED's are cameras built by a computer company. This is my favorite quote for the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted September 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 And RED didn't design this themselves? You'd think for, what, $50000 they could design a quieter camera like the Alexa. Small correction: it's a $40,000 camera (plus lots of accessories). And the Epic today is somewhat quieter than it was 18 months ago. They're getting better, and they are very much aware of the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 " they could design a quieter camera like the Alexa... it's tough "engineering" stuff.. " The Alexa is a computer built by a camera company, The RED's are cameras built by a computer company. I thought they were a sunglasses company... :~ many clueless productions will not realize they need them until it is too late... the key word being clueless, if they are, then there's no 'too late'. :~~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 The FanPlate is clearly not an SX-ST ;-) but Jacques gave us full support to make our project alive even with his tight schedule. Patrick Dear Patrick, It's great to see you out here. Could you not see this as an attachment to a camera that can go without any nuts/bolts/screws - some kind of a clamping technology? Secondly, could you not bring the price down to make it possible for sound people to carry this in their kit? This is based on the assumption that many DPs and others who are directly connected to the camera equipment dont really have an extended vision that takes sound into the right perspective anymore. I for one want to have this in my kit, but not at this price. I am sure there are many others. If this is priced in such a way that it can be used by us sound people as a non-rental accessory (because it matters to us, and the price wont put a burden on us) I am sure there will be hundreds of sound people across the world wanting to get one. At 800$, it just does not fall in this category - we are all carrying SO MANY items in our kits that we dont get directly paid for as rental items, part of the package, etc. I hope you understand my perspective. BTW - please let M. Jacques and Stefan know that I have been trying to contact them over an extended period of time from here in India. Thank you! warmest regards -vin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 That's helpful for rehearsals and tracking down bg noises without the camera rolling, but the camera is still very noisy when in a small room or in close proximity to talent. I also don't feel like propper cooling of the camera is a sound department responsibility, even if the negative effects of the heat are creating a sound issue. +11 Exactly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Tresch Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Hello Vin, Thanks for your questions, First of all, I think the FanPlate is an accessory that the DP/rental house/AC has to work with during the prep of the shoot to adapt their handles... It's an item that should be part of their Camera renting-pack. So I don't think it's an item that the sound department gives to the DP the day of the shoot (not impossible but not likely). I understand your desire to have it ready when ever needed. BUT I think that the sound department can point the DP/Production to this solution so that they can arrange one for the prep. The price is due to the few units we plan to produce (50-100) and there are a lot of costly process handmade here in Switzerland. It's true that comparing the FanPlate with the Iphone 5 that could be about the same price and has a bit more technology in it... is a bit risky... ;-) but we would love to forsee a sell of hundreds of million like Apple does. I don't think that it would be usable to have a sort of clamp on device. The handels attached to the FanPlates have to be secured in a bolted way to the body. You Have to be able to hang your cam fully equiped by the FanPlate to a crane... securly. The FanPlate also acts like a "heat sink", so tight contact with the body is mandatory. I'll tell your greatings to Jacques next week when I see him. See you. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Andrews Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 "The FanPlate® was set at 1⁄2 speed so that its noise was equal or slightly lower than the noise of the camera fan set to 35% (31% indicated on the camera)." 35% on the RED is still too loud!! I agree it should help with rehearsals and long takes a bit, but it'll still be a loud camera. Thanks for coming up with an improvement to it though Patrick. ~Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 "The FanPlate® was set at 1⁄2 speed so that its noise was equal or slightly lower than the noise of the camera fan set to 35% (31% indicated on the camera)." 35% on the RED is still too loud!! I agree it should help with rehearsals and long takes a bit, but it'll still be a loud camera. Thanks for coming up with an improvement to it though Patrick. ~Mark. +1. 35% is still louder than I want for interior work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Tresch Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 +1. 35% is still louder than I want for interior work. Not all Epic-X cameras make the same noise. So it's difficult to tell what 35% fanspeed means. But I'm sure you are right to complain about it when you have an issue with it! This 35% setting is for long takes (more than 20 minutes) wich is rare in fiction (BTW it's quite as loud as an ARRI SR2). If you want to shoot @ lowest setting 25% (20% indicated on camera) you can shoot up to 9 minutes if you cool down the camera core after the take to 54C. So I advise you to convince the AC to takle the heat problem and also controll the camera heat. Cooling/getting the camera temp ready for reheasal/getting the camera temp ready for shooting. A few years back, they had to check the gate after every shot, cleaning geate and changing rolls, why should they complain about taking care of the camera heat issue inherent to the actual technology? (Alexa, F65... also have it) Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted October 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 There is this solution inbetween takes... Ice, ice baby! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 That is... Wow. What if it starts to trickle down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent R. Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 There is this solution inbetween takes... Ice, ice baby! Yes, that was actually the official recommendation from RED HQ back in the days with the RED one. I can remember an interview with the RED crew who assisted on the Sotherbergh "Che" movies were this was mentioned... The "rebels"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted October 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 I have to admit, the above pic was for the Red One, and not the Red Epic. I think it's not a bad idea to cool off the Epic inbetween takes if you're outside and the temperature is approaching 90 degrees (or higher), but the crew would have to be very careful not to block the vents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 I have to admit, the above pic was for the Red One, and not the Red Epic. I think it's not a bad idea to cool off the Epic inbetween takes if you're outside and the temperature is approaching 90 degrees (or higher), but the crew would have to be very careful not to block the vents. Considering where the vents are located on the Red ONE (down the bottom, near the plate), ice cooling was an option. Considering the vent on the EPIC (up the top, facing skywards), ice cooling could be disastrous. One drop of water off the bag into the vent could spoil everyones day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted October 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 Red is saying that the Epic vent does not lead directly into computer circuitry or the pickup, so dust, dirt, or even tiny drops of water would not be disastrous. I still would be very careful as to where the ice bag was placed, and watch out for condensation. I'm nervous that Red is getting ready to introduce a 6K pickup (!!!), because my expectation is that this is going to create bigger files, more data, and more stress on the data pipeline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 Red is saying that the Epic vent does not lead directly into computer circuitry or the pickup, so dust, dirt, or even tiny drops of water would not be disastrous. I still would be very careful as to where the ice bag was placed, and watch out for condensation. I'm nervous that Red is getting ready to introduce a 6K pickup (!!!), because my expectation is that this is going to create bigger files, more data, and more stress on the data pipeline. Oh that's good. I mean about the vent, not the 6K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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