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The Ins and Outs of Bag Mixers/Recorders


rofin

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A long debated topic, but just to get a current perspective!

So how many inputs does a recordist 'really' need in a bag, and of what type? e.g. what proportion of wired to wireless? And what about digital? And what about monitor?

What about outputs? Iso, camera, bus, phones, digital, analogue?

The saying 'No one size fits all' may actually not be true.

The penalties of providing potentially unnecessay full spec input and output channels such as XLR panel 'real estate' and associated electronics / power consumption / menu options etc impact heavily on the overall design of a product which would surely be better served if tailored properly to the 'modern' workflow.

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In my mind, if I were to purchase separate kits for each type of job and not have to build / break down bags, I would probably do the following...

ENG - 3ch mixer + backup 2ch recorder + 2CH snake or wireless hop to camera

TV - 5ch mixer + backup 2ch recorder + 2CH wireless hop to camera and mono IFB feed

EFP - 6ch mixer + 8ch full recorder ISO + MIX + 2ch or mono hop to camera, mono IFB, 1 or 2 PL for coms to boom op(s)

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Yea, get your gigs identified, and you can determine just what you need....in STARK contrast to what I read and see here, I work with a SQN mini, two wireless, and a boom, with one more channel for whatever. Adding an additional wireless when called for....hop to camera or wired, and a Comtek system, in a very small, lightweight, easy to use bag!!! I can shove the mp3 recorder in the front pouch when needed and not have my back throb at the end of the day...its about knowing your clients, determining what they want up front and still having a bit of flexibility when needed...

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Most people here seem to put together what their main work requires. Some people are doing shows with a lot of wirelesses and IFBs, some people are doing indie drama out of a bag, some folks do really simple stuff. No one likes to carry more than they need, so many folks have a couple of bags so they can "scale" to the job (and budget) at hand. All it takes is a few jobs where you feel "under-gunned" to make you realize it's time to up the ante, and by the same token if you find yourself looking down at a lot of unused channels a lot of the time you start to wonder if maybe there was an easier (lighter) way for what you're doing.

phil p

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Yea, get your gigs identified, and you can determine just what you need....in STARK contrast to what I read and see here, I work with a SQN mini, two wireless, and a boom, with one more channel for whatever. Adding an additional wireless when called for....hop to camera or wired, and a Comtek system, in a very small, lightweight, easy to use bag!!! I can shove the mp3 recorder in the front pouch when needed and not have my back throb at the end of the day...its about knowing your clients, determining what they want up front and still having a bit of flexibility when needed...

I have the same kit, took a long hard look at the alternatives when my "full size" SQN4s needed replacing. Concluded that the mini was capable of doing 99% of my work, not to mention the 4 ch prefader output if needed..

Grant.

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In my mind, if I were to purchase separate kits for each type of job and not have to build / break down bags, I would probably do the following...

ENG - 3ch mixer + backup 2ch recorder + 2CH snake or wireless hop to camera

TV - 5ch mixer + backup 2ch recorder + 2CH wireless hop to camera and mono IFB feed

EFP - 6ch mixer + 8ch full recorder ISO + MIX + 2ch or mono hop to camera, mono IFB, 1 or 2 PL for coms to boom op(s)

This is exactly what I'm building now, almost to the letter.

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For the EFP scenario, is it ever likely that all 6ch are wired or are at least 2 always radio?

So what about digital ins and outs. Does anybody actually use these?

Direct outs (pre/post) on a multi-track recorder. What's that for?

I use the AES I/O on my Fusion for all my wireless. I've also used the AES on Sound Devices recorders for some peculiar post production gigs where I had to come out an Aja card.

The direct outs are a post gain/pre fader output for that particular channel. They allow for a signal to be recorded separately from a mix track. Typically called the Iso channel (isolated).

Production Sound Mixing for Television, Films, and Commercials.

www.matthewfreed.com

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It depends yes. As long as u don t have to lug around the bag too much being over equipped is nothing really. Having the ability to wire more people on the fly is key. I use to think that having two lavs was enough, but now i rock 4 lectro sm's and i look forward to get two more.

I find my nomad to be a good compromise of weight vs function. 10ins/10outs (or so?). And sr recievers are pretty light and take two tx per rx.

This sums into a pretty versatile/light kit.

Even if i m getting a call for a one person sitdown indoor interview i would never just bring one lav and boom and no outdoor zep.

U kinda never should trust the orders u get for a speciic gig and should prepare for a whole meal when u get a call of an appetizer.

Saying no i can t do something, cause i didn t bring it, cause u didn t told me does not retain clients. Unorganized gigs pay anyway so get ready for anythin really..

More is better. That s my rant

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ENG - 3ch mixer + backup 2ch recorder + 2CH snake or wireless hop to camera

TV - 5ch mixer + backup 2ch recorder + 2CH wireless hop to camera and mono IFB feed

EFP - 6ch mixer + 8ch full recorder ISO + MIX + 2ch or mono hop to camera, mono IFB, 1 or 2 PL for coms to boom op(s)

This is pretty much how I see it as well. For bag setups.

My concern is that, what are after all portable sound kits, are becoming increasingly specious by design at the expense of core function ergonomics and are basically unnecessarily expensive and power hungry due to the inclusion of rarely if ever used I/Os and complex processors performing dubious at best dsp routines to feed them.

e.g.

10 inputs in a bag? really?

On a multitrack recorder what is the purpose of having ISO output connectors?

On a 6 channel mixer/recorder, do all 6 inputs really need phantom power and low noise pres or are at least 2 or 3 likely to be radio ins?

Digital Outs?

Vincent, I presume you recorded 4 to the PIX240 because the SD552 couldn't, and it follows that you had to go in digital because the PIX240 can't input 4 analogue. But would you have recorded to the PIX anyway if you had a multitrack recorder at your disposal?

Digital ins/ Digital mics? ... Common?

To implement a proper (to spec) AES42 input (let alone 2) is a big ask for battery powered gear. 10V/250mA per channel!

etc.

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Digital Outs?

Vincent, I presume you recorded 4 to the PIX240 because the SD552 couldn't, and it follows that you had to go in digital because the PIX240 can't input 4 analogue. But would you have recorded to the PIX anyway if you had a multitrack recorder at your disposal?

I was a substitute on this occasion on a TV drama series. Normally shot on a Cantar, but that machine was gone with the original mixer, so he gave me this option since we only needed 2 booms and 2 lavs for that day. So basically it fitted exactly the bill. It already was an Epic-wired-to-a-pix shoot anyways. Turn your question around: like this there is no special need for an audio recorder.

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